Building a Purpose-Driven Photography Business with Tim Walden

Pat Miller: 00:00

I'm Pat Miller, and this is The Professional Photographer Podcast. If I turn this microphone around and said, “Hi. Welcome to the show. Describe your style.” You may look into the camera and say, what? It's hard to put your style into words, isn't it? But what if it wasn't? What if you could describe your style? I do this for these people in this way. In fact, I'm known for it. In fact, I'm famous for it. In fact, I might be the best in the world at it. That clarity and that confidence to know that you're on the planet doing what you love, and it's world-renowned. People are beating down your door to get exactly what you do. It sounds like a small business dream. It sounds like that could never happen to me. In fact, only famous people get to do that. But what if that's how they got famous? What if they got really clear? What if they leaned into their purpose? What if every piece of their process was built around what they wanted to do and what they knew they could do for their clients? That may seem too good to be true, and it may be something that you've heard other people say before and you've tried and it didn't really work for you and but, but, but the business and but, but, but my priorities and expenses, whatever. This episode is different. This one is a bookmark episode. You need to remember where this episode is, and you probably need to listen to it about once every 6 months. Is that high praise? You're darn right. Am I gonna pay off on it? You're darn right. Do you know why? Tim Walden is our guest. Now if that isn't getting you to get out your notebook immediately, then I can't help you. But the promise of this show is to help you build a better photography business. And if you watch this episode, and you really listen to what Tim is saying, by the end of this episode, I promise you, you're going to be better at what you do. I've never been more certain of it. This episode is a killer. Five keys to building a successful style. And then the episode goes on into talking about the selection process and how to have people crying when they're seeing their images. Like, it's, this is a tour de force. His stuff today is so good. I'm telling you. I'm gonna shut up and get him on the camera because he's that good. Get your notebook, get comfortable, and get ready to build your personal style. We'll be back with Tim Walden after this. Tim Walden, welcome to The Professional Photographer Podcast. How are you today?

Tim Walden: 02:56

I'm doing wonderfully. It's a beautiful day in Kentucky. And of course, if I'm doing anything with or for PPA, that makes me extra happy. So, yeah, it's a good day.

Pat Miller: 03:05

It's a great day to have you on the show. I know you're really going to help people because we're gonna talk about a question and a point that is sometimes misinterpreted. It's hard to understand, and you do such a great job explaining style. Do you think people are aware of their own photographic style, or do they not really understand what style is in the big picture?

Tim Walden: 03:26

Well, I think they have a core understanding, but I don't think they developed their style the way they should. I think your excellence comes in developing your style and finding that sweet spot. And success in the marketplace, success in your photography, all of those things come, I think, in honing down and finding what makes your heart beat faster. What you're passionate about, and then carving away the things that you're not as passionate about. I think sometimes we think, “Well, this is what customers want.” But the reality is this is what customers are getting everywhere else. It's not necessarily what they want. We have to show them what they, and we show them that by developing a style that is worthy of all the different, all the qualities that we're going to talk about, I know today. And, you know, that allows you to rise to the top through the masses, from the masses. And, you know, I like to say and have said for many years that I'm more interested in the fact that people know what I do than that they like what I do. Because when they know what I do, the people that love it and ultimately, I think, Pat, success lies in the right two people on the seat. I mean, you know, have drawn the right clients. And then I think, too, we are our own worst enemy. We know what we do. And so we have this terrible misunderstanding of this. So does everyone else, and they don't know. And it's our job to clarify that. Like so many things, it's carving away. It's getting down to the very things that make you unique and special and doing it with absolute excellence and purpose. Again, some of the things I know we'll dig into.

Pat Miller: 04:57

Oh, this is gonna be such a fun episode. You already dropped like 3 bombs. I wanna ask questions about, but I wanna begin with how you define style. And if I heard you right, it was basically what makes your heartbeat faster, what you love to do. And it seems like a lot of the emphasis that I see on the web and on YouTube and in education is focusing on the technical accuracy of capturing what's in front of you. Is being technically accurate the same thing as having a style?

Tim Walden: 05:26

No, not even close, to be honest with you. Forgive the bluntness. It's not. That's part of what the problem is. We lose what we're selling. What we should be selling are things that make people's lives better. Things that change their life. We use photography as our language to tell their stories. And when we sell technical excellence, I think we're missing the point. You know, I like to say, if I go to a very high-end restaurant, you know, and I'm spending a lot of money for a really fine meal with the lady I love, taking my wife out. Right? And we're going out to a great meal. I'm not shocked that the chef knows how to cook. I mean, you know, that's not why I'm there. Right? I'm there for that experience. I'm there for the flavor that that bring. Not all the technical skills that go into it. And I think also the clock base, the people out that we're trying to attract, they have a right to expect us to be technical, technically excellent. It's not to me what we market. It's like, you know, my work's is sharp and it's well-expressed. I think that should be a given. Right? So technical excellence to me is, should be a given, and it is the vehicle that we carry the story and the message of their life, the people they love, their personalities and their stories. It's the way that we do that in a way that stands attested to.

Pat Miller: 06:44

And it doesn't make it unimportant. It just is a different avenue to pursue when it comes to this conversation because we're really trying to explore the style and how we like to express ourselves through our work. We're gonna dig into your 5 keys to building a successful style in a second.

Tim Walden: 07:02

Right.

Pat Miller: 07:02

But like I said, you're already dropping bombs and I can't just, like, you know, go down the highway and pass that bomb you dropped. I'd rather have people know what I do than love what I do. Wait. Just stop. Just, we're stopping for a second here because that is somewhat counterintuitive. We all wanna be loved and we all wanna do great work that's adored, but I need to hear more about that phrase because it was a show stopper.

Tim Walden: 07:24

Well, yeah, I think that's something, we're people pleasers. You know, most photographers are. And, since, you know, clarity is a key to creating a style, I think that when we define who we are, the people that love it will come. When we try to be all things to all people, we're never going to be top of the game on any given area. Right? And I think it's in defining who we are that people in the marketplace will begin to see it, recognize it, and those that love it will come. And then you take out of measurement to some degree, price and location, the 2 worst ways to draw a client is to be the cheapest, easiest to get to. Right? That's not the way we want to draw people. So we draw them through definition. And when you define, you drive people both to you and away from you. And it's in drawing that definition as an artist that people, they look at it and go, “That's what I want.” They see those differences. They see the uniqueness. They see the clarity of who you are as an artist and those people that love it, they will travel as far as they need to travel. They will pay what they need to pay to get it because they see that distinction. You're putting the right two people in the seat, yourself and that right client, and your successful. So, the way I see it, is that the first step in my success is drawing the right people. And it's in defining who I am as an artist in the marketplace.

Pat Miller: 08:46

Such a great answer. Now, if you're watching this and you're thinking, people don't know my work just by looking at it. They can't identify me from a lineup. If you're in that situation and you really wanna express yourself more with how you do what you do, we're gonna dig into it right now. So sharpen your pencils, get out your notebook. It's time to go to work. Tim's gonna share the 5 keys to building a successful style. The first key that you believe is clarity. Let's talk about clarity when it comes to building your successful style.

Tim Walden: 09:17

Right. Yeah. Clarity is, I think we start and end like book ends in style and clarity is the first. And I don't think it's always the sexy thing to say to photographers, but ultimately, it's in defining yourself and so that you're recognizable. Less is more in this, in our industry. And I think as it's, to me, it's like a funnel. We're like a funnel. When you start doing a little bit of everything for everybody, especially in this noisy kind of busy world that we're in, it's hard for people to see what makes you unique, right? It's in finding that place that is uniquely you. Where can you go? The masses can't go. As a matter of fact, one of the ways I like to say is look where everybody's running and turn around and run the opposite way. What can you do that they can't do? What can you do that the masses don't do? What can you do better than anyone else because you're passionate up there, right? And so you carve out the clarity, I think, and that is a process. I think it starts by some soul searching. I think it starts by phasing in what you do. You simply say, you know, what are the things that I love? And you begin to set a course. And then as you walk that journey, you will, on an ongoing basis, you'll begin to carve away things that don't line up with who you are, and you'll begin to bring the things that are very much the things that you have a heart for. Those will begin to rise to the top, but it has to be intentional. You have to do that intentionally. And I think that's, you know, the very first key. You know, when I took over from my father, we were a little bit of everything to everybody. And, I took over, I don't know that you know the story of my father, but he was in a wheelchair. He was handicapped from his armpits down, and he became handicapped when he was with the US government as a commercial photographer. And he got into photography as therapy. As a matter of fact, he couldn't afford to make money because making money would have cost him his disability. Right? So when I got in and studied with him, he was an amazing photographer. But when I got into the business with him, I learned how amazing he was a photographer, but how terrible he was a businessman because he didn't need to make a living. Right? And we were at a point we were doing anything for anybody at any time. Whatever, you know, you want a blue background, what do you like? What backgrounds do you like? What do you like? We just put all of these things. And I gotta tell you, Pat, for me, when I took over and I realized how in the hole we were financially because I needed to make it. I thought to myself, you know what? This is not what I want photography to be. This is not. I wasn't passionate about it. I'd lost all that passion. It was jumping through all these hoops. And I talked to my wife. I said, “You know what? If we're gonna go out of business, I wanna go out of business doing something I love. At least this is, I wanna go out doing something I love.” Can photography really touch people's lives? Can it make a difference in their life? And we started what we call relationship photography then. It's black and white, which I was passionate about working in the dark room, creating hand printed fine art pieces. And I started learning people's stories, asking their stories, and I clarified a style. I tell everybody it was a God idea because I'm not that smart. But we started saying, you know what? In a perfect world, what would I do? I would do photography that had meaning, purpose, that was unique and different. And we raised this kind of trophy style up amidst all the chaos of what, where we were. And it took about 3 years and it’s a like a 4-day podcast to talk about, so we won't do that. I raised this style up, and I began to treat my work with respect. I began to clarify it visually. I began to charge appropriately for it. I gave it identity in the marketplace. And I hate to admit this, not expecting it to succeed. Just saying, you know, I just want to do something I’m passionate. Right? And so as we did that, what we started doing is we started turning this ship that was going the wrong way. And all of a sudden, we started seeing people would choose us for a different reason. And we started getting people coming to us because of who we were and what we did, not because of price and location, those things that can destroy a brand. And, it was about 3 years. It took us about 3 years. And that my accountant called me. We had an accountant because we're a C-corporation, which is very, unique, but, and again, very boring for those to talk about. But ultimately, the reason we were a C-corporation is because any money that came would show as income from my father. It would show as income from my father, so we were more complex. So we had to have an accountant. And 3 years into this mind shift about the things we're talking about today, my accountant called. And he said, “Tim.” He said, “You're making a profit.” Well, I thought it was an obscene phone call. I'd never heard that word used before in relation to our photography. I'm like, “Who is this? Don't ever call here again.” But we started seeing that shift, and it started in us clarifying who we were, carrying it out in some of the things that, again, we're gonna talk about today, defining it in the marketplace. And Pat, we're now what? Two and a half, 3 decades since then, and it's still at the heart of what brings us success in the studio today.

Pat Miller: 14:35

I want you to reflect on what Tim just said. Are you doing what you love and you love it so much? If you're gonna go out of business, you're doing what you love, what you want to be known for why you're on the planet. We just heard the story of how his entire business changed when he tapped into the energy and inspiration and vision. And I'm sure your work when you did that, we'll get to the point too, in a second, but I would imagine when you doubled down on why you felt you were taking pictures in the first place, the quality of your work just exploded.

Tim Walden: 15:05

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I mean, when you have a purpose driven art form and when you are doing something you're passionate about, you'll do it better. And the other thing I would make an argument when we talking about clarity is when you do less, you'll do it better. I think creativity flows best in a box. And I know that is, again, counterintuitive. It’s like, you know, don't put me in a box. Well, put me in a box. I just wanna be in the right box. I mean, ultimately, I want to be in a box. I just want it to be my box. That, you know, there was the challenge. Don't put me in your box. Put me in mine. And then when I'm in my box, what happens, Pat, is I began to perfect. I start perfecting the details because now I'm in my sweet spot. I'm passionate about it. And, you know, back to that story with my dad and taking over, I thought I was so disappointed. I was heartbroken. It's like I loved photography, but I'd never had to do it for a living. And I'm like, “Oh, for a living. So I become a circus.” And I'm jumping through hoops and doing all this other stuff. And nobody was more dumbfounded than me that I could actually make a living and be passionate doing it and do something I love. I had to clarify. I had to define it. I had to carry it out with a number of other qualities, like, you know, purpose and investment worthiness and the things that we're going to talk about today. But as I began to clarify it, I know for a fact I drove people away from me, but I drove people to me and I drove the right people to me. And you start taking price and location out of it because now it's a purchase of your art because of who you are. And then over those 3 years, the very first pieces I created, you can see the Walden kind of heart in them, but they look very different as time went by because it takes time to start perfecting that skill set and clarify. But in the marketplace, so I know that what I did early on was good, but we never, but until you start clarifying, until you start defining and intentionally heading that direction, you don't necessarily, do the things that will bring that level of excellence and that refinement. And so clarity took us a little bit of time, but not the heart of it. All the little peripheral pieces took a little bit of time, but boy, it's like I'm doing today what I did then. I'm sure there's some changes, you know, but the heart of it has it. And we're hanging portraits today next to other portraits that we did 20 years ago with the same qualities that we had then. And it's, and I still, if I could change it all, I wouldn't change a bit of it.

Pat Miller: 17:43

And that is the way to build a brand, to build a business, to build a life, to know that the last 20 some odd years you've been doing work that you're so proud of. You can't stand it. And you did it. One other thing I wanna call out. If you're watching this and you're not saying, “Oh, well, that's a Miller piece. That's a Walden piece.” If your work isn't so unique that you can put a name on it and know what that means, you know that you need this conversation. So I loved that you did that because it was just encapsulating clarity and what you stand for. We do have to talk on the second point, even though we touched on it a little bit, which is technical excellence. And I love how you define being technically excellent. We are technically excellent when what happens.

Tim Walden: 18:28

We have to be technically excellent so that we make our photography invisible and we allow the story to rise to the top. And I think sometimes it's good to just kinda have an analogy, you know, maybe you have a public access station or something, you know, where you live and you're you flipping through the channels, you hear somebody talking or saying something. You're like, “Well, that's an amazing story or whatever they're sharing touches you, right? You sit down in front of that television, and you're watching. All of a sudden the camera bounces. Right? And then all of a sudden the person walks out of it or goes in and out of focus. What do you do? Well, you change the channel. And why do you change the channels? Irt’s because the lack of X has cost that story a place in your heart and mind. You've lost it. And I think what we have to do as photographers is we have to see technical excellence as what it is. It's the vehicle that carries the message, the purpose, the story to the client. Yes. You need to be technical, no excuses. Yeah, my dad used to tell me, “Come to me with anything you want except an excuse.” He said, “I don't want you to show up with one of those. I'm not really interested.” And that was kind of how he, how he raised me. And he was, that's where his skill set really shined was in technical excellence. And I mentored under that. But ultimately, that's not what we sell. That's what carries the purpose, the story, the message. And if you go to a movie, if the movie's done really well by some of the great movie makers of today, you walk out either laughing or in tears or chills down your back, whatever. Right? Now maybe photographers are different. We might be like looking at all the shots and the colors and all that. But ultimately, that's not what the purpose of that that is, right? That purpose is that story carried through to you. And so to me, photography is just the way I tell the stories of the people that are in front of my camera. It's how we add meaning. And if I were a writer, I'd be doing the same thing. If, you know, if I were a painter, I'd be doing the same thing. I'm just doing it using a different tool. And that's the way I think we need to see technical excellence. It's critical because when it's poor, your photography becomes a facade, and it does not stand the test of time. And so, you know, you might wow somebody with something right away, but you look at it a while and go, you know, I didn't really notice that, you know, this problem or this issue or whatever. And it begins to crumble and we can't afford that. So I don't wanna belittle technical excellence. I just want it strongly positioned where it should be. And that is supporting the other things that make your photography and your style value.

Pat Miller: 20:57

This is so good. This is gonna be a 10-hour podcast. I'm telling you right now. This is fantastic.

Tim Walden: 21:01

I don't know if anybody can take me for 10 hours.

Pat Miller: 21:04

The third point will circle back towards meaning. So the third key is purpose. So we talked about technical excellence, and I totally understand what you mean there. But having a clear purpose influences your style. So tell us about purpose and how that blends into our 5 keys.

Tim Walden: 21:20

Well, purpose to me is the heart. You know, if your style is the body, the purpose is the heart that beats. It's where it's where we have to go. A purpose is what we market. It's what we sell. It's what we capture, those type of things. And purpose will be different for different people, you know. And your purpose can be a number of different things. It depends. But for me, my purpose is to tell people stories, and, you know, I have to learn their stories to tell their stories. And I know that when I approach my photography from a client's perspective, not from, I'm a better photographer. Right? And so I think purpose answers the question for the client is what's in it for me? Because we sell ourselves too much like technicians. We execute the technical side as we just talked about and think, okay, well, that makes us a good photographer. Well, it makes your photography good. It doesn't necessarily make you a good photographer. And so that's what's important is what's the purpose. And so when we started the relationship photography, you know, Pat, I really felt like, and I still do, that I can change somebody's life with photography. I can celebrate their life the way no one else can. I'm not saying better or worse. That's up to the people. But I can celebrate it the way no one else can. By having photography that's driven from the perspective of celebrating that person, whatever that might be. It could be a joyful story. It could be a sad story. It could be victorious story. But, for me, that's where you're gonna really succeed is when you can define the purpose of your art and then begin to carry that into the client's experience with you, and you carry it into your sales, into your marketing. I like to say that you should market and you should sell the result of your art, not the art itself. Or you sell the result of your art. So one of the ways that we, that we do this, this is such a big topic. I struggle with where to go because it's an explosion of importance, you know, to me. But one of the things that we started doing many years ago, my father would not do this. And this is one of the areas we differ and I love and miss my father, but this is one of the areas we really differ. Like, I think what I do before a session determines the outcome. Right? And so we do a design appointment with every portrait, and we want people to, we want to sit down across the table from people and talk to them. Is, you're like, if this portrait were a chapter in your life, Pat, what would the bold print? You know, that's the way we might ask the question. If this this portrait were a chapter, in the life of you, your wife, your children, what would the bold print be? What's the story that needs to be told? Tell me your favorite thing about your wife. What's your favorite thing about your son, your daughter? What, you know, like when you look at them, what makes your heart beat? What are those things? And I began to notate and learn those things because I can tell you this, when I go into a camera room, when I know someone's story, I'm a different photographer. Period. End of sentence. Hard stop right there. When I know someone's story, I am a different photographer because I push the button at a different time. I approach at a different time. I communicate differently with these people. And don't be fooled by today's technology that we think, okay, if we're gonna tell a story, we have to start assembling pieces into a photograph. That's fine if that's what you do, but that's not what I'd do. But I could tell your story and the way you look at your wife. I can tell your story by the way you embrace your child. I can tell your story with little subtleties that happen, and that story resides in my mind. And when I see that play out, I push the button at a different time. I sell my work different because, for instance, I was raised by a Southern mom. I'm a Southern boy. Right? You can maybe tell put my accent, but I'm a Southerner to the core. I love me some fried chicken. I'm a Southern. So, yeah. But my mom used to tell me, she, you know, “Son, you can't be, nobody wants anybody cocky. Nobody wants anybody arrogant.” Right? And yet when we go into the sales room, sometimes we go, “Wow, don't you look great in that photograph? Wow, Pat, don't you look handsome in that photograph?” Well, see, I couldn't answer that question. I couldn't say, “Yeah, I look wonderful.” Because I could still feel my mom pinching me under my arm. Right? If I said something like that. But you know what I can ask you? I can say, “Pat, do you remember the story you told me? How did I do telling that story?” See, now I've changed the whole dynamic of that experience. Now it's like, “Pat, you remember what you told me about your son? What's your ambitions for him? Do you remember what you told me about your daughter?” Where she, you just melt, you know, her eyes, just, you look in her eyes and you're like, you lose it all. Like everything changes, right? Now, I take that story. I take what you've shared with me ahead of time, carry it into the camera room. I carry it into the selection appointment. I don't like to call it a sales appointment. Nobody wants to be sold. So we take it into the selection appointment. And I'll say, “Pat, remember what you told me about your wife? I see that in this image.” And you know, Pat, I started I started picking images that weren't always my favorite in my dad's days were the, gosh, I hate saying this because my dad, he probably roll over in his grave. Like the wrist is bent just right, or this is done just right. What is it saying to me? You know, that is, everything orbits around that to me. No excuses on posing, no excuses on technical excellence, but the purpose is what everything else orbits. So when I'm in that selection appointment, I say, “Pat, do you remember what you told me? I see that in this image.” I keep pointing over there because that's my TV screen. Yes, for those that don't know, this is the room that they would be in. So, and then all of a sudden you're like, “Oh, my gosh. I was like, I saw the way you looked at your daughter. I saw the way you guys connected. I saw that story. I see that in this particular image.” The whole dynamic changes. And then I carry that story out on the marketing side. And instead of showing people, and again, my dad might turn over in his grave, instead of showing people the images that had the best of the technical applications, I show them the one that has the most powerful story. And I tell that story with clients' permissions. I share that story in the marketplace. Now I'm connecting with people in a whole different area. And this to me is where purpose lies. This is where, this is the magic pixie dust of a style. And it's like, what is the purpose? And with our relationship work, Pat, we tell our clients it's a glimpse into the heart, you know? And so it's a glimpse into the heart. It's not recording your face. Why would you pay me to record your face? That makes no sense. You can do that with your phone. Right? I've gotta go beyond me. There has to be something more. So anybody can record your face, but I'm gonna tell your story. So a glimpse into the heart, whereas a color study, and I say all of this because I want people to understand that it's not always the same thing. It can be different. But a color study for us, ‘cause we don't do color and black and white together. We do black and white relationship work, and then we do color study work. A color study is a glimpse in the mirror, right? It's like when you're getting all decked out to go out for the evening, you know, you've got your outfit on, you know, the ladies have all their makeup, their hair, everything's just right. What's the last thing you do before you leave? You stop and take a look in the mirror. Right? How do I look? How does my outfit look? How does my hair look? How's my makeup? That's what a color study is at Walden's. That's the purpose. Now we're showing you at your best. I don't care if you're comfortable. I only care the beauty that you have, that your husband sees in you or that your wife sees in you. That's what we wanna reflect in a color study. In a relationship portrait, we wanna tell your story. Everything's a style decision. So the clothing they wear, for relationship work, it's loose fitting. It's solid. It's dark because I don't want to say, “Gosh, I love the way you snuggle with your child, but your tie is crooked.” Right? Everything is a style decision. Clarity is helping me. And of course, purpose. If my purpose is to have a looser style, then I'm choosing lighting. I'm choosing clothing. I'm choosing the things that allow me to execute that in that camera room. And this is why I like to start with the end in mind. I am not a let's run in and see what happens kind of photographer. I want all the pieces together. I want the stories told, and then I wanna go in to execute that with all the tools, the vision, that I need to make that happen. And the other thing is that I never wanna photograph a stranger. Right? So I like a design appointment because I don't wanna photograph a stranger. I wanna photograph a friend. And so, I have to make a friend to photograph a friend and that's part of it, too. But one other thing is I think the more people, the more you ask people to provide for you, kind of a buy-in, like telling their story, It freaks them out when they come into in a good way because they're like, I'm not saying here's the backgrounds. Which background do you like? I'm saying, “Pat, tell me about your children. Tell me that story.” Right? So all of a sudden, I'm changing the game on all this. And the more I involve you in that, the more you take ownership of that art, the more you understand that purpose and the more the fulfillment of that is gonna happen because we're collaborating together and making it.

Pat Miller: 30:29

I have like 42 additional questions after what you just said. I was writing things down and I'm like, no. Now I wanna ask about that. But I think the thing that I need to hear from you, I would bet when you sit down with the consult and you're sitting there with the couple or the parent with their child and you ask them about their relationship, how often do you hear something that the other person doesn't expect that, like, changes the dynamic, and you've never said that before. I've never heard you express that. I would imagine those kinds of intimate thoughts just pour out of people.

Tim Walden: 31:03

They do. And I think it's your job to create the environment. And I wouldn't worry about, people say, “Well, yeah, how personal should I get?” But I think we know where those places are. Right? We know where those places are. And I think the other thing is most photographers, they stay on the left brain side of things. They never cross over here. But I've noticed that people love to talk about the people they love. I mean, they're looking for an invitation. And, so if I say, “Pat, tell me about your children.” Pat never goes, “Well, that's none of your business.” He always goes, “Oh, God, let me tell you about my daughter. Right? Let me tell you about my son.” And I become a sponge that drinks up the things that make you unique. All of us are unique. All of us have special stories to be told, and we don't have to tell stories in a linear fashion. We can tell stories in subtleties and nuances. And I think the other thing, you know, people do begin to open up. And the other thing is when you're in the camera room, I think this is building on your question of how many people will say something and the person next to them is like, “Wow, I've never heard you say that.” The other thing is when they're in that camera room, they provide for you a different level of commitment in that session. In other words, their walls come down because you've already kind of broken to one of those walls down. And I think your ability, to communicate becomes greater because you're communicating now with somebody you have some knowledge of and you have a friendship with. Right? And you've already crossed a lot of those barriers. I think what you do before a portrait setting is critical. Absolutely critical to the outcome of the portrait. At least it is for me. I can imagine you showing up and going into a camera room, and I've never met you. And me telling a story, what story am I telling? And then you come in with all these preconceived ideas of what you've experienced in the past. Right? And so, which is not what you're gonna experience at Walden. And so we have all these new places to kind of have to break through. So, yeah, it's important that we ask. It's important that we listen, and it's important that we carry that into that camera room.

Pat Miller: 33:07

Bookmark it. Remember it. That was a 10-minute masterclass on purpose. When you don't feel like you know what you're doing, go back and listen to that. We could seriously do an entire episode on just that. That was spectacular. But we're gonna change gears now because the 4th key of our style is building investment worthy you know shots to put in front of that session when it's time to do the selection which is a very subtle twist which I love. So talk to us about being investment worthy.

Tim Walden: 33:36

Well, investment worthy is a lot of things. You know, this really has become even more clear, I think, over the last, I don't know, 15-20 years with the entry of digital photography. Right? I love digital photography, by the way. I don't want anybody to feel that I don't. I love it. But I also love the print. And part of my investment worthiness is in providing product, providing art that fulfills this purpose, right? What is the purpose? The purpose for me is that we tell their story. And how's that story best told? It's best told in a printed form. There's both a, part of investment worthiness is in how people experience you and their art and their story told. And I like to say that, there's both a real and a perceived value difference in photography and the way we provide it. Meaning that, your photography on a subway in front of an iPhone with a slice of pizza is an entirely different experience than when someone walks in your home and that piece hangs on the wall. Right? And so, it's maybe the same piece of art, but it's not told the same way. You know, and there are the depth, the texture, the qualities that are needed for that story to be told is part of how we, when we fulfill that in print, that's a big part of it. So I'm a print artist all the way through. I mean, to me, that is the way I fulfill. And again, no judgment here for others. I mean, you have come to your own conclusion. You know, my job is to share what I do and why I do it. It's others' jobs to take that, plug it in when it's appropriate, ignore it when it's not. I mean, it's up to them. But for me, my photography needs to be in print. That's part of that investment worthiness, and that's how that story is best told. And I think that's important. Plus, I want my work to have a, to stand the test of time. I want that piece to go in that child's home one day. Right? And so one of the things that we started, and this kind of leads into part of being investment worthy, is I had a marketing director that was on staff here 20 years, and she was also was into journaling and writing and things like that. So I'm always kind of jumping from purpose to investment worthiness here. But we were like, how do we get, how do we take this up a notch for the people that we're serving with our photography? How do we take this up a notch where they are getting the purpose and the value of this investment over time. And she said, “You know what, Tim?” She said, “We need to encourage people to write a letter to their children and to put that on that piece of art on the back of, a letter, and let's keep it a secret.” But can you imagine that when you have a 5-year-old daughter and we create a portrait, we tell her story, and then mom and dad write a letter, that goes on the back of that portrait. Right? Now we're talking about investment worthiness. We're talking about purpose. All of those things kind of together. What happens is when we're in that selection appointment, I'm like, “Pat, I want you to buy your daughter's wedding gift.” And it's like, Pat, she's 5 years old. That day never comes. Right? But tell me, tell me this, Pat. Tell me when that day comes and your daughter walks down that aisle. Right? And all of a sudden that portrait that was on your wall is now on that gift table. And there's a letter back behind that, that she didn't even know was there, that you wrote to her. What your ambitions, what your goals, what your desires were for her. You wrote that letter. You popped that back there. Now, the investment worthiness of this piece, the purpose of this piece is reaching new heights. See, I want you to pay me for that photograph, but I don't want you to keep it. You're only borrowing. You only get it for a little while. And then when you take that off that wall, those nail holes, those become like trophies. I mean, you start your daughter's legacy. You start your son's legacy with that photography. All this kind of ties in to creating art that stands that test of time. And one of our goals in photography and one of, in marketing sales photography is figuring out how to take people from today to 10 years and 20 years from now. How do we eliminate that? How do we take it away? And we do it through providing processes and meaning and things that add value. And again, becomes an investment, not a purchase. I don't wanna sell anybody anything. I want them to invest. And I think these are the things that kind of, and you know, there's other things going to investment worthiness and artists is exciting to talk about, but what does your studio look like? You know, when they walk in, what are like the 5 sentences? How are you attracting the, you know, those things? What does it smell like? What does it look like? What does it taste like? What are the refreshments like? What's the seating like? All of those things speak and should sing from the same hymn book. And that all ties into being investment worthy as well. Price ties into investment worth. When something is cheap, I wonder what's wrong with it. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that something I paid $10 for is a lifetime investment. You know, I'm sorry. You just, I don't know if people like or don't like that, but I have trouble because I use prices a part of that measurement. Now, if you have a high price and you have poor quality, now ] it's a facade and it's disappointment. If you don't fix it by lowering your price, you fix it by adding back. I mean, it's a whole different mindset. Right? I had a fellow, one day in a selection appointment, and we were, we finished up and he said, “Tim, that's a lot of money.” When we came to the tab, he said, “That's a lot of money.” And I said, “You know, it is a lot of money.” I said, “But let me tell you something. I'm gonna make a promise. I promise you the day you pick it up, it'll be worth every penny you pay for it. But I'll also promise you that it'll hold its least value on that day. That every day after that, it will grow in value.” How many people can make that promise? Right? And so, you know, I think that's what we have to do. We have to connect people with today to the future. What is our, and that goes back to purpose, goes back to investment worthiness. When you walk in your home, Pat, when I've done a portrait for you, don't turn the lights on. Leave them off for a minute, just the ambient light in the room. What do you see in that portrait? In a Walden portrait, you're going to see the people. You're going to see the impact. The size is going to affect impact. It's going to affect placement and impact. When you walk in and you see that, I want you to see the people that mean the most to you. And then when you turn the lights on, I want you to see all the subtleties that make it excellent. But ultimately, with those lights low, I want you to see the people that mean the most to you. So these are the way we describe their investment to people. And it's not just talking points. It is what I've experienced and what I believe from our photography.

Pat Miller: 40:06

This has been going on. My mind is exploding through this whole conversation. We're not even through the 5 keys. We gotta do the 5th key because I have, seriously, I have, like, Santa's Christmas list. I have that many questions for you, but we gotta get through the 5th key, which is consistency. Wrap us up with consistency as the 5th key of defining our style.

Tim Walden: 40:26

Well, that is a quick one to get to. Actually, it’s think the hardest one. And I think for most photographers, it kinda sucks. But to be honest with you, because it's like, you know, that's why I say I book end, the 5 keys, clarity number 1, consistency number 5. And the other 2, the other 3, the sandwich in between there. That's kind of like where that, where a lot of us are and where we need to be. But consistency means that you stay the course. It doesn't mean you don't perfect your work, but it means the core values, the core qualities, the core impact of your art, is stays in play. Because if you're not consistent in your work, people aren't going to identify your work. And remember what we said in the beginning, I'm less concerned that people like what I do, more concerned that they know what I do. Because when they know what I do, the people that love it will come. But they won't know what I do if I'm not consistent. Clarity is carving away. Who did you say it was? Like, Mark Twain said, “I would have written you a short letter, but I didn't have time.” Right? That's the way style is, is, you know, we just, we throw all this stuff out there and then we don't ever carve it away. And then we wonder why people don't know who we are. And we're our own worst enemy because we're like, “We know who we are. Why don't they?” Well, I'm going to tell you right now. It's not their job to know who you are. It's your job to make it clear who you are. And part of that clarity is in carving away, just like editing, like a bad article. The other part's consistency, staying that test of time and giving it time to saturate in the marketplace. So consistency in showing your work. And I think the other thing is time is the thing that's hard because we can sit here in an hour or 2 on a podcast, and it's just like, “Well, here's the formula.” But I mean, there's reality in life that it took us 3 years to get to that point. But I would venture to say we could have never gotten there had we not made some more bold moves in defining who we are and stay in the course and telling the story. When you add emotion and you add some of that magic to your style, that's gonna help you. But nothing's gonna replace staying the course, and going out and showing people what you do. And one of the downsides is we're in an industry that there's nobody can exhaust photography. It might exhaust you, but you can't exhaust it. There's a million things. And every time we go out and we see somebody, “I wanna do that. I wanna do that.” Well, the problem with that is we never carve away. We never edit as we were just staying down to where people can recognize who we are and choose us for that reason. So I encourage you not to not learn. I've studied with the finest photographers, I would argue, in the world and continue to do so. And I'm fortunate. I'm thanked, but I always bring it home to, you know, to me. Is this who I am? And how do I apply that to me without compromising who I am and becoming a diluted, explosion of different things. And so consistency is doing it, doing it well, doing it over time, singing from the same hymn book over and over again. When you have that little magic of purpose, you add that in. That can shorten some of that, but nothing replaces the fact that's gonna take time. And the time is determined by how consistent you are and how clear your style is.

Pat Miller: 43:42

We talked about the 5 keys to making a style. I wanna talk about how to act on them in a second, but I can't move off of this without making you, I bet, uncomfortable. And I bet your mom would pinch you on the arm as she heard you talk because this is a business podcast. And you told the story about when you decide to own the work and own the style and do what you believed in. That is a giant perceived risk. You bet on yourself. Honey, if I'm going out of business, I'm gonna do it my way. And ever since you made that risk and that decision, look where you are now.

Tim Walden: 44:18

Right.

Pat Miller: 44:19

So what inside you told you, I know I can do this. I am gonna believe in myself. I'm gonna bet on myself because I'm a big believer that this style and this one unique life that we have, we don't get to do over again. So we might as well do what we love. So back to your decision that day when you're like, “You know what? This is how we're doing it.” Reflecting on that and encouraging people who are watching this to take a similar bet on themselves. How does that make you feel 20 some odd years later?

Tim Walden: 44:49

You feel great about it, but at the time you're doing it, you know, I think you, there's the level of diligence and pushing through, and staying the course. And, you know, I think those type of things, you know, thank God for my wife too. I say, “You know what? This is where our heart is. This is what we're going to do. We're going to stay the course.” And I would say that it has to be intentional, and it has to be something that you go in knowing that you've got to give it your all. You've got to stay that course. But for me now, looking back, that's why I always tell everybody it's a God-inspired idea because I'm like, I didn't know in that moment. I had no idea. I mean, we were on the verge of collapsing our business wise. And the things that seemed the right things to do is like more business. I was already working nonstop. I was already not making money, you know, already given up my life, you know, to do, to work day and night, to jump through hoops and do something that I didn't consider photography. I considered it, you know, picture taking. We're not allowed to use the word picture around here. That's a nasty word. So we're like, “We don't use that word.” So, because if you're in Kentucky, it's not picture, it's pi-ture. And that's what you put T in. Right? So, but nonetheless, you know, in looking back on it, what I've learned is we can follow our heart and we have to come to a point where we say, how do I? Because you can, win as an artist and you can win as a business person, but you do it intentionally. You do it by setting a course and following that course. And yes, you know, it's like surfing. You know, the water changes, you bob and weave a little bit. Absolutely. I don't know what I don't know, but I stayed the course with an intentional way. I make a plan. We talked about that. I make a plan. I work the plan. We do a lot of coaching and I tell, I tell those that I coach, I said, “Make a plan.” Well, I'm not sure what it'll be. I said, “Okay, make a bad plan.” It's like a bad plan is better than no plan because no plan is a disaster. So let's make a bad plan. And then we have, that way we have something to fix. Right? So I think for us, you know, we kind of bobbed and weaved as we went. We worked our plan. We phased it in. We raised it up. Now for us, we raised it up as a trophy style. We didn't just shut everything else down. You know, we just began to raise the relationship work up and it allowed us as we begin to see success to leverage away the other pieces. That was a big asset for us. Because as this photography became known, and we priced, we didn't compromise, we kept the price, we kept the quality, we kept the standards, we kept all of the things we just talked about. Then I was able to eliminate things or raise prices on certain things as we went, and it gave us a leverage to change our business over, what I consider a short time in hindsight, 3 years. It's an eternity. But it was in hindsight, it was a very short time. And now that I look back, I'm so thankful. I'm so grateful that I'm in an industry that I love so much. People I love so much. And I get to do what I love and people pay me to do it. Just name something as rewarding as that.

Pat Miller: 48:03

It's fantastic. I've got a thousand questions that can go down rabbit holes about how to do the plan building and really pursue some of this, but you need to learn from Tim and we are way over time, but I'm not done asking questions. I got 2 more quick ones before we get into it. I love the way that you approach the selection session. Can you talk about creating that experience of how you go about it? Because I know you have a very clear point of view on the selection session.

Tim Walden: 48:30

Yeah. I mean, the selection appointment, that's the climax, man. That's where the rubber meets the road and we should not be dreading that or like, “Oh, my gosh, we're talking people into something.” No, we're fulfilling a vision. We've painted by telling a story. I mean, it is like, I love the selection appointments. It's like one of the climaxes. And I think really a selection appointment is one more piece of that journey from the very beginning, when you defined a style, people chose you for that style, you learn their story, you then created their story. Now you're just simply telling their story. We do, in our selection appointments, I consider those like an unveiling. It's like, I consider the whole experience at Walden’s like a form. And everything is done in a way that just brings excitement and brings fulfillment of purpose. And the selection department is almost, you know, the climax of that. So for us, when we do a selection appointment, we go back to the stories that we've told. When I look at their images, I'm selecting. I make selections. We started doing what we call suggestions probably 20 years ago when we hired a landscape architect. We moved in a historic part of Lexington, and we bought a really nice house for a little bit of money because it was a mess. Like, we couldn't afford that area at that time. So we were like, “Okay, we'll get this and we'll fix it up.” Landscaping was one of those things. Right? And so we brought in a landscape architect, and I set aside a couple of thousand bucks for landscaping. So he comes in, he looks at it, he draws, he takes photos of our house. And then he comes back and lists say $2,000 just like nothing. It's like, yeah. It's like, it's laughable. Right? And then he shows me this little drawing, like the bird's eye view of the landscape. I don't understand what that is. I have no clue what he's thought. I just see that dollar amount. But then he did something, Pat, that we've taken to the selection appointment. It's back to your question. He showed me my home virtually landscape. I'm sitting here looking at my house, landscape, virtually. I understood that. I mean, all of a sudden, I'm seeing the vision in this photograph. This color over here, this is where we have the texture. This is what, guess what I did for the landscape? We figured it out. We charged some of, which not a good idea, we did all we did whatever we had to do to get it right. So when I go in that selection appointment. I've learned their story. I have a vision, and now I lay that vision out. You remember the story you told me? That's what I see here. We use, you know, we use a software like ProSelect. It allows us to show the image on the wall. I think that's amazing. We're showing context. It's no longer what's the right size. It's that's the size it needs to be. We're showing it in context. I show very few images. I remind them of the story that they told me. And I think one of the most powerful things an artist, that words can have is this, it’s not what do you want, but this is what I see. I want an artist to tell me what they see. So I use that. I say, “Do you remember the story you told me? This is what I see. This is how I see that being used. This is the manner, the place, the method.” I'm answering all the questions. I think it was Ken Whitmire, the great Ken Whitmire that said, I was teaching and I had a chance to talk with him. And he said, “When you ask someone to be an expert at something they're not an expert in or at, instead of telling you they're not qualified, they fall back on their life's experiences in answering the question.” So, Pat, what size do you want for over the sofa? Well, Pat, not being in photography, let's say, not being who you are, says, “Oh, you know what? 1993 dime store photographer. I'll have a really big 10 x 13 for over the sofa.” And so all of a sudden, you know, now you've asked him to be an expert at things he's supposed to be an expert. Right? So the selection appointment is a fulfillment of context. I think that's the smartest thing you can add to sales, context, storytelling, reminding them of that story, getting rid of images, showing them what they need to buy, how they need to use it. I don't know where to go with this because I could go all day long on sales. I love it. I just love the process, but that's what it, but ultimately, it needs to be a reminder of the story, a fulfillment of that purpose. You're constantly bringing clients back to it. And I think it needs to be, as I've told you, the story I'd asked photographers listening to this is, when you're in the selection appointment, how much time do you spend explaining versus experience? And if you're explaining nonstop, “Well, this is, this mount board is really heavy and this texture here, feel this texture. Oh, but feel this texture. It's a little more smooth, but you feel how bumpy this one.” You're, you know, it's like going to a Mercedes dealer and they send the mechanic out to sell you the car. That's exactly what we're doing. Now we need to be experiencing that art and part of the experience of reminding them the story, telling that story, showing that in context, how that story and that art is used, bringing it together with things like letter writing and other things that help them see their investment over time. It's magical. It's the easiest thing you'll ever do if you do it that way.

Pat Miller: 53:27

Do you hear that? I hear part 2. We're gonna have our people call your people and see if we can get you back on the air. I'm telling you, Tim Walden, this was just incredible. Thank you so much for coming on The Professional Photographer Podcast.

Tim Walden: 53:40

Well, thank you. I'm a big fan of, PPA, and I would tell you there's no better way to invest your money and your time and your energy than part of it. I'm honored to be part of it.

Pat Miller: 53:52

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of The Professional Photographer Podcast. Now was I right? When this episode started, I said, if you watch this and really listen to Tim, this is gonna be a thing. Right? It was a thing. Isn't there a button somewhere here? Click that if this is a thing. There is. It's the like, share, and subscribe button, and the comment button. Now if you watched this episode and you're still listening to me, you heard Tim in his very, gentlemanly, aw, shucks. I only do what, no, dude. Like, that was incredible. So can you leave a comment and let Tim know that he probably changed your business? Incredible. Just wow. In fact, we will have our PPA minions working with his minions to get him back on this show because it was just incredible. But leave a comment, like, share, all those goodies so we can high-five Tim and thank him for his work. Also, you heard Tim talk about how important PPA is to him. If you're not a member yet, you are missing out. PPA offers incredible resources like equipment insurance, top-notch education, and a supportive community of photographers ready to help you succeed. It's perfect for photographers who are serious about growing their business in a sustainable and profitable way. At PPA, you belong here. Discover more about membership at ppa.com. That's ppa.com. I'm Pat Miller, Founder of the Small Business Owners Community, and your host for the show. Thanks for joining us on this journey. We appreciate your support, and we'll be back soon with more tools to help you build a business with The Professional Photographer Podcast. See you next time.