Essential Tips for Boosting Your Photography Business with Kira Derryberry
Unlock the secrets to a thriving photography business with Kira Derryberry and host Pat Miller. In this episode, Kira shares game-changing strategies on low-pressure selling, building client trust with tethered shooting, and efficient time management. Learn how to increase revenue effortlessly through smart outsourcing and strategic networking. Packed with actionable tips, this episode is your guide to transforming your photography business without overwhelming yourself or your clients.
Episode Highlights 🎤💡:
(25:18) - Gaining Trust with Your Clients
(27:53) - Kira's Pricing Advice
(35:05) - Automating Your Workflow as a Photographer
Connect with Pat Miller ⬇
Connect with Kira Derryberry ⬇
Transcript
I'm Pat Miller, and this is the Professional Photographer Podcast.
Speaker:If you wanna build a better photography business, you might be on the hunt
Speaker:for a podcast just like this one.
Speaker:An expert looks into the camera and prescribes what you're missing.
Speaker:It could be an overhaul of your marketing.
Speaker:It could be a new way to do your in person sales process.
Speaker:That's great.
Speaker:But in your heart, you know that that's not something that happens overnight.
Speaker:Making changes like that require a lot of hard work and time and effort.
Speaker:It's not an instant turnaround.
Speaker:On this episode of the Professional Photographer Podcast, however, I
Speaker:wanna go in a different direction.
Speaker:What if we could get one of the most accomplished photographers,
Speaker:studio owners, and leaders just to give us some quick wins?
Speaker:I want some ideas to make a little here or save a little there to improve your cash
Speaker:flow, customer experience, and maybe even the enjoyment of running the business.
Speaker:On this podcast, we're gonna do deep dives into the nitty gritty
Speaker:of building a better business.
Speaker:But today, we're gonna do a lightning round of questions to
Speaker:see if we can unlock value for you.
Speaker:Today's guest is PPA Board Chairperson and longtime photographer, Kira Derryberry.
Speaker:A better business is just a few moments away.
Speaker:We'll be right back.
Speaker:Kira, welcome to the Professional Photographer Podcast.
Speaker:How are you today?
Speaker:I'm great.
Speaker:How are you?
Speaker:I'm great.
Speaker:I'm really glad you're here because I wanna do something different.
Speaker:I wanna focus on
Speaker:quick wins.
Speaker:Things we can do quickly to pivot towards money and less hassle and things that we
Speaker:can do to move the business forward without taking a ton of time and effort.
Speaker:So I want you to
Speaker:think back.
Speaker:Can you think of a time when you made something change, like a seemingly simple
Speaker:change, but it made a quick impact to give us an example?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:It's a long answer though.
Speaker:Go for it.
Speaker:It's a quick thing, but it's a long answer.
Speaker:So, you know, I love photography.
Speaker:I love the art of
Speaker:photography and being creative and experimenting, and the first
Speaker:part of my career, I felt like I
Speaker:was just constantly just like learning, learning, learning, and then trying.
Speaker:You know, learning,
Speaker:applying, learning, applying, but it was exhausting.
Speaker:It made every shoot that I did in the studio
Speaker:just a big setup, a big breakdown.
Speaker:And one day, a friend of mine told me that I was working too
Speaker:hard.
Speaker:And I was like, what?
Speaker:What do you mean you know I'm producing all this like great stuff?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But there's no consistency between the stuff.
Speaker:It's just a gamut of stuff.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:You're
Speaker:just, I was like, yeah.
Speaker:Like, okay.
Speaker:But imagine how much more you could do in a day if there was
Speaker:consistency.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So imagine how many more headshots, for example, you could do in a day if
Speaker:you weren't moving lights all over the place, if you weren't
Speaker:constantly resetting and remetering,
Speaker:and changing out the backgrounds and all this stuff?
Speaker:Imagine what you could do with that.
Speaker:And
Speaker:that idea was really hard for me because I love playing in the studio.
Speaker:But kind of moving to a place where I was trying to actually be
Speaker:productive in the studio and not
Speaker:play in the studio, that was when the money started happening
Speaker:because I actually structured my
Speaker:headshot photography on specific days in the studio.
Speaker:And because the lighting was consistent and
Speaker:I could do slight modifications to make the lighting or the scene
Speaker:look a little different without
Speaker:having to redo everything, I was able to get, you know, 5 times
Speaker:more people in a day than I could
Speaker:just doing maybe 2 headshots a day or 1 headshot a day for, like, 1 entrepreneur.
Speaker:Now I can do an entire company in an hour block and then have
Speaker:another company come in and
Speaker:then do a smaller shoot for another individual later in the day and
Speaker:still and being able to do that
Speaker:much volume in a couple of days without leaving the studio,
Speaker:without resetting anything, and
Speaker:creating that structure that that became financially very viable for me.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And batching work together like that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Some people think instantly, "But wait a minute.
Speaker:What if my client wants to come in on a Thursday, not
Speaker:Wednesday when I do headshots?"
Speaker:How did you think your way through that natural reaction that some people have?
Speaker:That was part of it that was so scary.
Speaker:And I think that's what people fight against when I talk
Speaker:about this a lot when I teach.
Speaker:What if they wanna come in and they can only come in on Saturday or
Speaker:they are only able to come in at 7 o'clock or 9:00 on a Thursday?
Speaker:Well, I don't work that.
Speaker:And—
Speaker:I'm closed.
Speaker:—I'm sorry.
Speaker:I am closed on that day unfortunately and, you know, it's hard for a photographer.
Speaker:I've found with the photographers that I've spoken to before about this.
Speaker:It's hard to kind of, like,
Speaker:set your boundaries and set your rules.
Speaker:And so you have this fear that, like, I need to get my foot
Speaker:in the door.
Speaker:I need to be available when the client is available, so that I can do it.
Speaker:But it's not financially making sense for you to do one headshot
Speaker:for a small amount of money on
Speaker:a Thursday evening, missed dinner with your family to come in and make $250.
Speaker:You know what
Speaker:I mean?
Speaker:Like, you might think that you're getting your foot in the
Speaker:door with this one person, but
Speaker:that's not enough money for you to break, you know, your regular work schedule for.
Speaker:So if somebody says they're only available on a Sunday or a Thursday
Speaker:night, I go, you know, I do
Speaker:these on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
Speaker:Here's the calendar where you can book maybe hopefully,
Speaker:we could find a time that does work for you, maybe on a lunch break.
Speaker:And 9 times out of 10,
Speaker:they make it work.
Speaker:If they really wanted to work with me and they really wanna come to the
Speaker:studio, then they will go, you know, I could leave work early.
Speaker:I could, you know, go in on a lunch break.
Speaker:Often they're just saying, "Well, I'm off on Sunday."
Speaker:But they're not actually thinking maybe I could modify my schedule
Speaker:to work for this company,
Speaker:you know?
Speaker:Because I don't go to the mall and go, well, I can only
Speaker:come to the mall and shop at
Speaker:this store, you know, midnight on Thursday night, so they better be open for me.
Speaker:Well, no.
Speaker:You
Speaker:know what I mean?
Speaker:They're not open.
Speaker:They're open during these days, these hours.
Speaker:You know
Speaker:what I mean?
Speaker:And I don't expect them to come in on a time when I'm available.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:If you're thinking right now, like, woah, I never thought of it that way.
Speaker:You're gonna love this episode because we're gonna go through a bunch of
Speaker:different areas of the business in search of quick wins like that.
Speaker:And if you start batching the time that you're available, everything's
Speaker:just gonna get a lot easier.
Speaker:So Kira, let's start with some of the most important and least understood topics
Speaker:in the business, expenses and cash flow.
Speaker:When you think about spending less and keeping more, what are some
Speaker:of the quick wins that come to mind?
Speaker:Well, I'll start by saying I've always been really bad at this.
Speaker:So if I can do this, then you can do
Speaker:this because this is not, you know, saving money, thinking
Speaker:about money, being excited about
Speaker:invest, you know, like, I am not a money person.
Speaker:I have never been a money person.
Speaker:I like
Speaker:money.
Speaker:I like to have money.
Speaker:I like to spend money, but I don't think about, like, that's not in me,
Speaker:you know, as it is in some people.
Speaker:So in the beginning, what I was doing was just dumping all the
Speaker:money into a business account.
Speaker:Like, obviously, I gotta have a business checking account.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So everything that I make could just get dumped into that account.
Speaker:And then okay, well, I have
Speaker:studio overhead and expenses.
Speaker:Okay, well, let me take the money out of the account and pay that
Speaker:stuff.
Speaker:Okay, well, I have some cost of goods for the products that I've sold.
Speaker:Okay, let me take
Speaker:some money out of account, and pay for this.
Speaker:And then eventually you're like, but is it balancing out?
Speaker:Like, did I make enough money to cover
Speaker:both the cost of goods of the products that I sold, but also to
Speaker:cover the overhead and went, oh,
Speaker:did I pay myself?
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:And so but it was always kind of a crapshoot.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:like, every month you'd be like, well, it was a good month because I got money.
Speaker:I got paid this
Speaker:month.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And that's not how it should work.
Speaker:It should not be a good month because you got
Speaker:paid this month.
Speaker:This is a career.
Speaker:This is a paycheck.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So I, got into, Profit First, which, I think it's not unheard of in our
Speaker:community, and as photographers but it surprised me how many people have it.
Speaker:So, basically the way that works, is
Speaker:you're going to set up different bank accounts.
Speaker:I have a bank account that is the intake, the funnel that all the money comes in to.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So all the clients pay me there.
Speaker:I have an account that is
Speaker:just for overhead cost of goods, all the things that I have to pay out.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:I have a profit
Speaker:account, imagine that, which is the money that is in excess
Speaker:that I get to, you know, have.
Speaker:But I
Speaker:also have a, owner pay account.
Speaker:And now this is, like, very different from while it was working
Speaker:before.
Speaker:Everything just felt like profit before, you know, when it was
Speaker:all dumped into the things.
Speaker:Like,
Speaker:oh, I got money because there's leftover money.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:But I actually get a paycheck and have
Speaker:taxes taken out and investments taken out and, you know, all that stuff.
Speaker:And because I have an
Speaker:owner pay account, and the profit account becomes a place where
Speaker:money kind of accumulates so
Speaker:that I can pay for large purchases or things that I want in excess.
Speaker:Like, I paid for my kitchen
Speaker:remodel with my profit account a few years back, just cash.
Speaker:And that I never in a million years, it's me be able to think
Speaker:about doing something like that.
Speaker:You know, just letting that money, it's not a savings.
Speaker:It's just like it every twice a month, I divvy out
Speaker:all the money from the funnel account into different percentages
Speaker:into these different accounts.
Speaker:There's a tax account, too.
Speaker:My accountant was so thrilled when I told her I had a whole tax account.
Speaker:Like, she was like, "Wait, you're telling me you have the money?"
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:She goes, "So, I'm so sorry.
Speaker:Here's what you owe."
Speaker:And I go, cool.
Speaker:Here's the tax account money
Speaker:and she goes wait, "It's in a tax account?"
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like, yeah, every every month I have different
Speaker:percentages that come out of this main funnel into all these
Speaker:different account and everything is
Speaker:covered and if it's not covered then you know you have a problem.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So that was that was the biggest change that I made in my financial
Speaker:structure for my business that actually made things start making sense.
Speaker:Because again, not a money person.
Speaker:I was like, I don't
Speaker:know if I'm—every month was a little bit of a panic.
Speaker:Towards the end of the month, you're like,
Speaker:oh, I better run a fire sale right now, so I can shoot a bunch of,
Speaker:like, discounted headshots or mini
Speaker:sessions or something right at the end because I think I overspent
Speaker:on, I bought some equipment
Speaker:this month, and I think I spent all the money I needed to actually
Speaker:have any money to pay my bills.
Speaker:So, you know, so this is the way that this works.
Speaker:It really works.
Speaker:It's not like a bunch of, it's just
Speaker:hard, you know, hard to wrap your head around in the beginning.
Speaker:But once it becomes part of your, like in your structure, your monthly
Speaker:that you do, it really helped.
Speaker:Now back me up on this.
Speaker:If you're watching this and you're thinking, oh my gosh, accounts and
Speaker:money and taxes and, oh, Mike Michalowicz, the author of Profit
Speaker:First, made this thing so simple
Speaker:to read and so easy to understand.
Speaker:It was relatively easy to learn and install, don't you think?
Speaker:It was very easy to learn and install.
Speaker:And, you know, I have the book, but, honestly, I had colleagues that were
Speaker:doing it, too, and they were great guides.
Speaker:When I went to the bank, it wasn't
Speaker:the, my bank actually had heard of it before.
Speaker:And so that was good.
Speaker:That was helpful because
Speaker:they knew how to set it up for me.
Speaker:But, yeah, it's really easy to implement.
Speaker:It takes some leg work on your part in the beginning just setting up the
Speaker:accounts, but any bank that you work with should be able to do that for you.
Speaker:And
Speaker:once you get over those hurdles and you just make that part of
Speaker:your routine that you do every
Speaker:month, it really starts to make sense and you stop touching
Speaker:money that you shouldn't touch.
Speaker:You
Speaker:know what I mean?
Speaker:Like I'm not gonna touch the money that's in my paycheck account because
Speaker:that's my paycheck.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, and I'm not gonna touch the money that's on my overhead account, you
Speaker:know, because that's how I pay my bills.
Speaker:That's how I'm paying for the products that I sell.
Speaker:If anything suffers, it's the profit account, you know, but that just
Speaker:will slowly accumulate over time, you
Speaker:know, because the paycheck account is the consistency that you're gonna get.
Speaker:There's a real comfort when you have the money in the tax account
Speaker:and you don't have to worry
Speaker:about when you file the taxes, and you can just write a check,
Speaker:and you can just move on.
Speaker:So that's
Speaker:a quick win if you've not read Profit First by Mike Michalowicz.
Speaker:You can do it literally in 2 days
Speaker:and have it up and running in a week, and you can stop worrying
Speaker:about managing money through
Speaker:the business.
Speaker:Let's talk about expenses for a second.
Speaker:In your experience, either in your business or observing
Speaker:other photographers, can you think of an expense that maybe
Speaker:was in your business or you see
Speaker:others spending money on that you're like, I've done that
Speaker:and it makes no difference what
Speaker:whatsoever.
Speaker:Maybe it was a client gift.
Speaker:Maybe it was showing up at an expo or maybe it was
Speaker:buying, you know, shopping bags to give your clients.
Speaker:Can you think of a time that you spent
Speaker:money that really didn't make a difference?
Speaker:Maybe it just made you feel good about yourself or
Speaker:turned out to be a complete waste.
Speaker:I would say, honestly, it was on ton a variety of backgrounds and
Speaker:props and studio things that I thought I needed because I thought
Speaker:that's what the client wanted.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:Like, I thought that I needed 5 different types of, you know,
Speaker:canvas, painted canvas backgrounds.
Speaker:I needed 5 different kinds of, like, you know, heavily textured ones or a Christmas
Speaker:set for, you know, like a one-off, you know, like something that I did.
Speaker:And it turns out, what I ended up doing was learning to be much more
Speaker:efficient with the use of the technology to create different looks, so that I
Speaker:could actually save money having to buy a bunch of stuff for the studio.
Speaker:Like, it's been so, I mean, it's probably frighteningly so long since
Speaker:I've allowed myself to buy anything for the studio because I always come
Speaker:at it from a place of how can I do this, you know, how can I do this more
Speaker:easily on my own without having to actually make a purchase, you know?
Speaker:Or like with the commercial clients, if they come to me and they're
Speaker:like, we want this very elaborate, you know, they have this great idea
Speaker:or whatever, you know, like, okay.
Speaker:How can we do that without spending any of my money?
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:So I think for me, when you come back to, like, the client experience and
Speaker:and the things, I did spend a lot of money on client gifts and packaging
Speaker:and gift bags and things like that.
Speaker:I kinda started, I realized that I had all this bulk of packaging, and it was
Speaker:taking up a lot of my admin time, a lot of my time in the studio just that I could
Speaker:be booking or working or working with a client, just trying to package up stuff.
Speaker:I even considered, like, hiring somebody to come and just work orders for me.
Speaker:And then they decided, like, should I just pay outsource the packaging to the lab?
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:Like, I have a lab.
Speaker:They do a great job with packaging.
Speaker:We can stamp our logo on the stuff and be done with it.
Speaker:So I started actually just relying on my lab to do all of my packaging, all of that
Speaker:stuff so that I don't have to worry about.
Speaker:I mean, to consider hiring a part-timer to come in and, like, make pretty
Speaker:packages for you is just is way more money than that, than the return on
Speaker:that because half the time they come in, they pick up their order and they
Speaker:unwrap it right there and they just, like, they go, so what was the point?
Speaker:Hey, that was beautiful.
Speaker:Don't open it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We worked so hard to make this gorgeous, you know.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:I think there is something to be said with a high quality packaging.
Speaker:I always think of, do you remember in Love
Speaker:Actually, the guy, Rowan Atkinson, I think.
Speaker:Is it Mr.
Speaker:Bean?
Speaker:He's like putting together that
Speaker:package and he's like sprinkling, like, coffee beans and cinnamon
Speaker:on it, and he has like a sprig of
Speaker:rosemary, and he sniffs it first, and he puts it all together on there.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:I was thinking of,
Speaker:like, I can't do a pretty, I'm not good at it.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:Like, they're not quite, you
Speaker:know, here's the biggest takeaway.
Speaker:It's not in my personality.
Speaker:It is not part of who I am to make an elaborately beautiful gift for the
Speaker:client.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:So if it's somebody else's forte to do something like that, then I
Speaker:have no business doing it.
Speaker:I can't, I won't put the heart into it.
Speaker:So outsourcing it is the right thing
Speaker:for me.
Speaker:I'll put it that.
Speaker:You mentioned batching earlier about when you schedule your sessions.
Speaker:Now you're kind of
Speaker:hitting on something that's a hidden expense, which is our time.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That by outsourcing this, maybe it was an extra however many
Speaker:dollars to have them wrap it.
Speaker:But
Speaker:now you don't have to do it.
Speaker:Do you consciously think about your time as an expense when you
Speaker:try and save?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I am always thinking about how much time that I spend on this one client.
Speaker:How much time
Speaker:that I spend on this one project.
Speaker:The reason that my headshot photography works so well is
Speaker:because I am not hand holding them through everything like I would
Speaker:for a big installation, for a
Speaker:family client.
Speaker:I have a completely different approach to my family photography
Speaker:where I do devote more time
Speaker:for that larger sale.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:You know, because they're getting a bigger product, they're getting a
Speaker:not better, bigger experience, you know, based on that.
Speaker:So they're gonna have my attention and
Speaker:the only way I can give those smaller, with the fewer clients,
Speaker:my bigger attention is to have the
Speaker:commodity clients, the in and outs, the here, because I'm like the dentist.
Speaker:My employer told me I needed to come get a headshot.
Speaker:I don't wanna get a headshot.
Speaker:I don't
Speaker:wanna be here.
Speaker:I hate having my picture taken.
Speaker:I'm not photogenic.
Speaker:You might as well just, like,
Speaker:smear a lens with Vaseline because I'm the most biggest mop
Speaker:for those people who don't wanna
Speaker:be here.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Those people I can spend less time with.
Speaker:How can I work on spending less time
Speaker:with those people who don't wanna spend time with me?
Speaker:Let's be honest.
Speaker:They need a headshot.
Speaker:They don't love the idea of having one because, you
Speaker:know, they've gained weight, they've aged, whatever the reason.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:How can I make it?
Speaker:The
Speaker:problem for them is getting it done quickly, making it look
Speaker:great, and getting them back to
Speaker:whatever they wanna do.
Speaker:How can I do that?
Speaker:And that's the problem I solve for them.
Speaker:And that gives me more time to work on those higher
Speaker:sale clients.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And so I'm always thinking about being the most efficient with my time.
Speaker:So
Speaker:most of the stuff for the commodity client is automated.
Speaker:Online booking.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:online scheduling themselves, automated payments that are set
Speaker:up, workflow emails that go out
Speaker:to the client at every stage of the process with them, getting
Speaker:their images delivered to them
Speaker:quickly so that we can move on to the next.
Speaker:All of those things are ways to manage my time in the studio so
Speaker:that I have more time to fit all
Speaker:the umpteen other things that I wanna get done.
Speaker:You know, learning new things.
Speaker:I need time to be
Speaker:able to learn new things to keep up with technology.
Speaker:I need time to take off, you know?
Speaker:I need
Speaker:that flexibility, and that's why it's important to be careful with your admin.
Speaker:It's a great insight about efficiently and respectfully spending time
Speaker:with people that don't wanna
Speaker:spend time with you.
Speaker:Get them what they need and let them move on so you can love up on the
Speaker:clients that really wanna be a part of what you're doing so you
Speaker:can drive up sales and grow the
Speaker:studio.
Speaker:And that's where I wanna go next.
Speaker:I wanna talk about sales.
Speaker:I mean, we can talk about cutting expenses and managing the dollars
Speaker:we have.
Speaker:And on this show, we will end up doing in-depth episodes on in-person sales and
Speaker:maximizing your technique and all of that, but I wanna talk about quick wins.
Speaker:Can you think
Speaker:about quick wins in the sales process to maybe grow the overall
Speaker:sale by a couple of bucks here or
Speaker:there, but over the course of a year, will end up making a difference in the studio.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So let's talk about it when it comes to headshots.
Speaker:Because I think that's where I'm trying to
Speaker:do the most upselling in the quickest amount of time.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So, you know, the way I structure
Speaker:my sessions is there's a flat rate for the session, and it comes
Speaker:with 1 or 2 images depending on
Speaker:what you're doing.
Speaker:That money is spent.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:When they book it, they pay for it online.
Speaker:What I
Speaker:do in the studio when they come is I shoot everything tethered.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Everything is tethered so
Speaker:that they can see right away and we can sit down right away and do those sales.
Speaker:So saving that time still comes back being efficient.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:I don't want us to waste any time
Speaker:with that client, downloading images, trying to process images
Speaker:to get them to look right.
Speaker:Like,
Speaker:they need to look right at a camera.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And so they're already on the computer.
Speaker:I sit down
Speaker:with them.
Speaker:Now remember money is spent.
Speaker:Money is gone.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:At this point.
Speaker:So what I've done during the session is not only have I fulfilled
Speaker:the needs that they came in for,
Speaker:but I might say something like, while we're shooting, I might say,
Speaker:you know, do you think there's
Speaker:ever gonna be a time where you need, you know, more of your body?
Speaker:Like, you're gonna have to
Speaker:be cut out, like you're a realtor or something.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:You're gonna have to be cut out, maybe
Speaker:placed on in front of a home or something like that.
Speaker:They go, "Yeah."
Speaker:Well, why don't we do a couple of three-quarter images and
Speaker:we'll just, you know, you can see
Speaker:those and if you like them, that's great.
Speaker:Or why don't we do a full length because maybe you're
Speaker:expanding your business and we might add some more employees
Speaker:and have a group photo at
Speaker:some point.
Speaker:You won't have to redo that.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So we've gone from just doing head and shoulders, cropped
Speaker:headshots, to we've got some
Speaker:three-quarter options.
Speaker:We've got maybe even a seated on a stool option.
Speaker:We've got a full length
Speaker:option for potentially other things that might come down the
Speaker:road to get them thinking, "Oh,
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:I was planning on hiring somebody in the next, you know, 2 months or something like
Speaker:that."
Speaker:We sit down.
Speaker:We look at the images.
Speaker:We get the 2 that came with the package, and we've
Speaker:narrowed it down to maybe 5 images right there and they go, "You know what?
Speaker:I don't wanna try
Speaker:and figure it all out right now.
Speaker:We've already paid for how many?"
Speaker:Oh, you paid for 2, so you just
Speaker:be adding on 3.
Speaker:Let's just, you know, let's just get the 3.
Speaker:Let's just add on the 3.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Because they came in thinking they needed the 2, but they
Speaker:hadn't actually thought about.
Speaker:And
Speaker:this isn't just shoving things down their throat that they don't want or need.
Speaker:This is just proposing
Speaker:ideas to them that they may not have considered yet to save
Speaker:them the time of having to come
Speaker:back in and get that done.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And so it's a win for them, and it's a win for you because
Speaker:they're not thinking about what the amount that they've already paid for.
Speaker:They're just thinking
Speaker:about the amount that they're spending that day.
Speaker:So it was a quick way to increase those
Speaker:commodity sale outside of what was already spent.
Speaker:That's a long answer, but it was quick.
Speaker:Now, but that's a good answer because if you're a photographer and you think
Speaker:sales is taking, sales is slimy, if you listen carefully to what you said, you're
Speaker:solving additional problems for them.
Speaker:You were suggesting places that they may need a photo.
Speaker:And by suggesting those places, they go, "Wow.
Speaker:You're right.
Speaker:That is something that I need."
Speaker:And that's a different way to think about sales.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, yeah.
Speaker:And if you kinda go at it with, I'm very low pressure in the sales room.
Speaker:In fact,
Speaker:I want to be low pressure because I don't want anyone to leave
Speaker:with something they didn't want.
Speaker:You know, I don't wanna ever go, but you gotta get this image
Speaker:because this image is little And
Speaker:they'll go, "Oh, no.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:No."
Speaker:You have to get it.
Speaker:And in fact, if you get it right now, I'll give you
Speaker:$10 off like that image.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:That's pushy.
Speaker:That's like, well, and only right now only right now
Speaker:I'll give you $10 off that image.
Speaker:You walk out the door today, I'm gonna throw that image away.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:That kind of sale, that's not me.
Speaker:What I'm trying to do is have enough variety on the screen in the
Speaker:least amount of time of shooting so that they look at it and we
Speaker:consider what are we gonna use
Speaker:these for?
Speaker:What would you use that one for?
Speaker:Well, you know, I could use that one if I expand my
Speaker:business in the next 2 months.
Speaker:I think that would be useful.
Speaker:So I'm gonna add that one.
Speaker:I
Speaker:definitely need the 2 close-ups.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:But I need that one.
Speaker:And, you know, this one is gonna be
Speaker:better for this part.
Speaker:So we're talking about what they're gonna use them for.
Speaker:I that is a frequent question in the sales
Speaker:room no matter what the type of client is.
Speaker:What are we gonna do with these?
Speaker:What are we gonna
Speaker:use these for?
Speaker:And it's not, it's more of as a guide and making them think, the client think, "Oh,
Speaker:you're right.
Speaker:Why did I do this in the first place?
Speaker:I came here because I need to have images for
Speaker:this need.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:To fulfill this need."
Speaker:So it's always about trying to make sure that they leave with stuff that they're
Speaker:gonna use because they're gonna come back to you the next time they need something
Speaker:because they don't feel that pressure, and they'll feel confident about the sale.
Speaker:No, like, remorse when they get home.
Speaker:You mentioned something I wanna follow-up on.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Can we talk about the power of shooting tethered, especially for
Speaker:the people that don't feel like
Speaker:they are Hollywood, that they don't wanna be there.
Speaker:And you capture those first few images and
Speaker:they go, "Oh."
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I've never looked that way before, or I've never felt that confident before.
Speaker:That sets off a trend in
Speaker:a session and helps you get further with a client.
Speaker:Doesn't it?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Getting trust with the client is so important, and I would say
Speaker:that it starts before they see
Speaker:that image.
Speaker:It starts when they walk in.
Speaker:The energy that they bring into the room, if it's negative,
Speaker:you can tell that they need relief.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:You can tell that they need to be put at ease.
Speaker:And so you
Speaker:might work a little harder to make them understand that you're
Speaker:confident that you're gonna get
Speaker:the best image out of them and they're gonna move on.
Speaker:So shooting tethered, what that does, especially since you've got,
Speaker:you've nailed your lights, you
Speaker:know how it's gonna come out looking like exactly like you're hoping for.
Speaker:You can make tweaks
Speaker:like once you see if it's not, you can make that tweak.
Speaker:So that's nice.
Speaker:But when they see the
Speaker:images coming in and they're not retouched and they look as good as they do coming
Speaker:in, they go, "Oh," because you don't know if they've had bad experience
Speaker:before or maybe it's been 10 years
Speaker:since they've had their headshots done.
Speaker:They don't like what they see in the mirror and they go,
Speaker:"Oh, it doesn't look as bad as I thought it was gonna look."
Speaker:And then they relax.
Speaker:You can kinda see their shoulders relax.
Speaker:You can kinda see their expression soften and they start
Speaker:to joke with you a little bit more because the worst is like a
Speaker:very tense, uptight person, who's
Speaker:holding their breath because they don't wanna look fat.
Speaker:So they're sucking in and their shoulders
Speaker:come up to their ears and they look uncomfortable, you know.
Speaker:And I think the key to a great headshot is making that person
Speaker:look their best self which is often
Speaker:confident and comfortable.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:But shooting tethered is scary for some photographer because
Speaker:they're worried that they needed to adjust them before, you know,
Speaker:maybe just in in contrast or
Speaker:lighting or what, you know.
Speaker:But if you can focus as a photographer on getting it really nailed
Speaker:down in your studio that comes from that consistent lighting,
Speaker:that, you know, consistent setups,
Speaker:things that you're very confident in, it translates to building
Speaker:confidence with the client, building
Speaker:that trust with the client.
Speaker:And I love tethering for everything now.
Speaker:In fact, it's just part of how I shoot these days.
Speaker:It's hard when I'm out and outside, which I hate doing.
Speaker:It's hard when I'm outside because I don't tether
Speaker:out there and it kinda breaks my process a little bit, that trust process.
Speaker:But yeah.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:I love
Speaker:being able to tether.
Speaker:We talked about expenses.
Speaker:We talked about retaining more of the cash that we have.
Speaker:We even
Speaker:talked a little bit about sales.
Speaker:Now I wanna talk about customer acquisition.
Speaker:How do you go
Speaker:about creating leads quickly, reminding people that they need
Speaker:you, inviting people back to the
Speaker:studio?
Speaker:Let's talk about how we can fill our funnel a little bit
Speaker:in a quick way to maybe get a
Speaker:couple of sessions on the books when you need them.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So my best advice is don't panic and don't fire sale.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:Just because you're at the end of
Speaker:the month and it's looking kind of bleak, it doesn't mean everything goes on sale.
Speaker:Because the
Speaker:only trend that you're setting there is that, "Hey, sometimes
Speaker:towards the end of the month, she
Speaker:puts everything on sale."
Speaker:And so, wait.
Speaker:Don't book her now.
Speaker:Wait till she, you know, does
Speaker:everything 50% off, you know.
Speaker:And so we don't wanna do that.
Speaker:We don't wanna create that if because it becomes part of your
Speaker:brand, you know.
Speaker:So, that's one.
Speaker:Don't panic.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:And discounts don't mean, you know, sale.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:Two, be ready at all times.
Speaker:So I never have a business card on me ever.
Speaker:I never have a
Speaker:business card on me, but you can create in your wallet, on your
Speaker:phone, you can create a QR code
Speaker:that sends them to a quick, like, save a contact option.
Speaker:So I put, I installed that on my phone.
Speaker:And
Speaker:now when I'm at a networking event, which is the next thing I'll say.
Speaker:Go to the networking events even if you're an introvert.
Speaker:I'm not an introvert.
Speaker:But I always love
Speaker:going to the networking events, but it almost always produces
Speaker:somebody going, "You're out.
Speaker:So
Speaker:good to see you.
Speaker:You were so and so's photographer.
Speaker:Didn't you do him?
Speaker:You know, Jenny Smith 's senior photos?
Speaker:I think I just saw that.
Speaker:Oh, that was so good.
Speaker:You know, my daughter is a junior.
Speaker:We need to probably get on that."
Speaker:You know, and it it it has that little engagement.
Speaker:So networking events, you know, within the community, but also networking
Speaker:events that are with your potential client, like your target audience.
Speaker:So if you're priced at a certain point that's more of
Speaker:a luxury service, then you're gonna wanna go to these networking
Speaker:events that are, like, the junior
Speaker:league events, networking events, or the, I work with a magazine here in town.
Speaker:It's a women's
Speaker:magazine, and there's a lot of influential people that have
Speaker:been featured on the cover.
Speaker:So go to
Speaker:those cover parties.
Speaker:They're usually public.
Speaker:You know, follow all of those types of things where you see the
Speaker:influential people in your market
Speaker:and go to their networking events.
Speaker:If they're giving a talk on something, go.
Speaker:You know what I
Speaker:mean?
Speaker:Because their friends and colleagues are there to support
Speaker:them and that's where you're
Speaker:gonna meet them as well.
Speaker:If you're doing, but you have to kinda match it to your target audience.
Speaker:So if you're at a mid level or a lower cost, there's always gonna
Speaker:be events for that target audience
Speaker:too.
Speaker:Me, I'm always kinda aiming for that luxury market, so
Speaker:I'm always trying to go there.
Speaker:So be
Speaker:ready with your contact information.
Speaker:Go to the networking events even if you don't want to.
Speaker:But
Speaker:also, I'll add this last thing.
Speaker:Also think about what the client's problem is.
Speaker:Now this is StoryBrand
Speaker:stuff.
Speaker:This this Mike Michalowicz.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Donald Miller.
Speaker:Donald Miller.
Speaker:I always get Donald Miller and Mike Michalowicz swapped.
Speaker:I know, right?
Speaker:But StoryBrand stuff who you know, I'm not a StoryBrand expert.
Speaker:My some of my friends are,
Speaker:but they've really changed my life when it comes to identifying
Speaker:what it is the client needs.
Speaker:So I
Speaker:mentioned that earlier when I'm selling to my headshot clients.
Speaker:Do you think that you might need
Speaker:it for this need that you're gonna have upcoming?
Speaker:That's me thinking about a potential problem
Speaker:that the client has and giving them a solution kind of before
Speaker:they realized it was a problem.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:You know, so I'm always also thinking about those potential clients, and
Speaker:thinking what is plaguing them right now?
Speaker:What is it they need right now?
Speaker:These families that I'm shooting for,
Speaker:what are they hoping will be in their home?
Speaker:My client is not a digital file only client.
Speaker:Like, they
Speaker:love a digital file, and I'm not afraid to sell digital files.
Speaker:But they want people who come to their parties at their home or
Speaker:people who come to their house
Speaker:to see this artwork.
Speaker:And it not to just look like, you know, "Oh, here's our annual family portrait
Speaker:on the wall," for it to look like epic, you know, because they, that
Speaker:I mean, I just did an installation
Speaker:recently and we had to rush it because we did these 6 foot metals
Speaker:in their home of their children
Speaker:running and that she's having a huge, like, 18-person dinner
Speaker:party event at her home and so she
Speaker:has this empty wall space in the dining area and this is what
Speaker:she wanted was these glossy art
Speaker:pieces on the wall.
Speaker:And you know that's the client and that was her problem.
Speaker:"Hey, I wanna impress all these people that are coming to my place
Speaker:and I want it to be family art, but I want it to be like, 'Wow.'" Right?
Speaker:So those are the ones that's that's how I kinda drum up new
Speaker:businesses is also kinda thinking
Speaker:about what the needs are of that target audience.
Speaker:We've talked about a lot of the major food groups of being a
Speaker:great photographer and building a
Speaker:great business.
Speaker:But I wanna go back to time management because it really comes down to getting
Speaker:it all done.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:When we begin, it's the photographer and a camera and the to-do list.
Speaker:But as
Speaker:you've gone on, let's share some quick wins about getting it all done.
Speaker:Software, contractors,
Speaker:SOPs, employees, how do you think about getting more done
Speaker:in less time that might be
Speaker:considered a quick win we could adopt relatively easily?
Speaker:Don't be afraid to outsource.
Speaker:Don't be afraid to outsource something that, I feel like it gets
Speaker:something right when you do this.
Speaker:That's great.
Speaker:I do.
Speaker:This is a yeah.
Speaker:Go.
Speaker:Go.
Speaker:Go.
Speaker:Don't be afraid to outsource.
Speaker:You know, there was a time where I thought if I didn't touch every single
Speaker:image from the click of the camera to the delivery of the image, you know, all of
Speaker:the retouching in between that it somehow wasn't my image or somehow I was a fraud
Speaker:because I wasn't the artist on the thing.
Speaker:I think separating yourself from the art of the photography is
Speaker:hard because of this medium.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:But if you can separate yourself as an artist and put on the
Speaker:business hat and go, okay.
Speaker:Anybody can retouch pimples out of a photo or or redo braces or
Speaker:clean up this parking lot for this exterior image of this building.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:Anybody can do that.
Speaker:And it doesn't make sense for me to toil away and remove a trash can or you
Speaker:know, it's getting easier now with the AI tools, you know, to do that stuff
Speaker:faster, but still, if you've got 40 images to do, it makes more sense to send
Speaker:that out to somebody else if you've got a lot of complicated removal of thing.
Speaker:Send it out to a company that retouches.
Speaker:Use an AI editor to retouch if you'd like, but outsourcing that as much
Speaker:as you can gives you more time to go and work on the next client.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:So outsourcing is, like, my number one thing to do and the hardest thing
Speaker:for me as a control freak to do.
Speaker:It's very difficult.
Speaker:Very difficult.
Speaker:I think the next really important thing is getting a good CRM.
Speaker:I use 17hats.
Speaker:There are a lot of software out there to manage your your client management, and
Speaker:it goes beyond, just a great invoicing, like QuickBooks or something like that.
Speaker:You need to be able to manage that client.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:You need to be able to know what stage of the process that client is in and
Speaker:workflows, automated emails, save my life.
Speaker:All of the the headshot booking, all of that corporate stuff, if
Speaker:somebody inquires on my website, a whole system goes into place to
Speaker:start actually booking that client.
Speaker:And most of the time, I never even have, like, a real conversation
Speaker:with that client, before they're booked in on my calendar.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:Because they've done everything automated, which is what they want.
Speaker:To be honest, they don't wanna pick up the phone.
Speaker:People less and less wanna pick up the phone and have a conversation
Speaker:about this or even 10 emails back and forth about this, you know.
Speaker:That has saved me.
Speaker:Workflow, automation, online booking, that has saved me so much time with
Speaker:the back and forth with clients.
Speaker:Gosh.
Speaker:Let's see.
Speaker:What else?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:I mean, the efficiency in the studio.
Speaker:I mean, I'm always trying to figure out how to have more time to to myself.
Speaker:I mean, the goal this year has been to do a 4-day work week.
Speaker:It took me a long time to get to a place where I felt like I had my ducks in a
Speaker:row enough so that not to panic, and if I make myself not available on Friday.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:And I finally feel like I am at a place where enough things can run on their own
Speaker:for me to be off one more day a week.
Speaker:And that's the dream.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:I mean, it's if you have these systems in place, if you have the
Speaker:confidence to know that you're always gonna get that paycheck, you're always
Speaker:gonna be able to pay your bills, you're always gonna be able to do this
Speaker:stuff, and it's just a conveyor belt just running, you know what I mean?
Speaker:Then you can start to think of things like, oh, I can start only working on, you
Speaker:know, these certain hours during the week.
Speaker:My availability is here because somebody else or an outsource or something is
Speaker:gonna handle this job that I would be staying up all night, you know, in front
Speaker:of my TV and with my laptop like editing.
Speaker:Something else is gonna handle that.
Speaker:Oh, all the back and forth with the emails.
Speaker:Well, they're virtual assistants.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Virtual assistants are an option for you as well.
Speaker:If you feel like you really need somebody to have a touch point in
Speaker:keeping up with that stuff, definitely.
Speaker:But yeah.
Speaker:So you know what?
Speaker:I'm all about saving time so I can do fun things and travel.
Speaker:Saving time, keeping the money that we make, having more
Speaker:money come through the door.
Speaker:It
Speaker:kind of summarizes everything that we hit today.
Speaker:Kira Derryberry, I really enjoyed the
Speaker:conversation.
Speaker:Thank you so much for coming on The Professional Photographer Podcast.
Speaker:It was my pleasure.
Speaker:Thanks for having me.
Speaker:Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Professional Photographer Podcast.
Speaker:This is a new
Speaker:project designed to help you build a better business.
Speaker:Now if you enjoyed it, here's how you can
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Speaker:No matter where you're getting the show, if we can build our
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Speaker:Like, what
Speaker:did Kira say say that made you go, "Wow, that changed the way
Speaker:I think about the business."
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