How Wildlife Photography Saved My Career With Kevin Dooley

Pat Miller: 00:00

I'm Pat Miller, and this is The Professional Photographer Podcast. Welcome to PPA's Professional Photographer Podcast. I'm your host, Pat Miller, and check it out. We're live from Imaging USA 2025 in Dallas. This is the Creative Play series, and Kevin Dooley's on the show today. I'm telling you, I am fascinated by him. We are gonna have a terrific conversation. Now the entire recording here is being done with the best stuff.It's sponsored by Sony and everything's being captured on their cinema line cameras and it's all being controlled using Sony's Monitor & Control app. It's really cool. Way above my pay grade, but they've done a great job here getting our stuff at Imaging. Now today's conversation with Kevin Dooley is cool to me. One, because the man is capturing images that nobody else is capturing of lions and tigers and bears. Oh, my. Maybe not bears, but literally everything else. He travels the world getting images that nobody else gets. But what's cool about him, and what I really love about our conversation today is it's not just about the work. It's about the meaning behind the work and how he got to where he is and what he can tell us about creative play and what you can take out of it. If you're doing something, but there's something else that has your heart, if you're doing something and there's something else you wanna go do, you're going to be inspired by our conversation with Kevin. So sit back and relax. I think you're gonna dig this one. Kevin Dooley, welcome to The professional Photographer Podcast. How are you today?

Kevin Dooley: 01:38

I'm very well. And I cannot express my honor to be here.

Pat Miller: 01:42

My gosh. Who paid you? Did my wife pay you to say that? Come on.

Kevin Dooley: 01:45

God. No. But, you know, I love PP of A, and it's been such a highlight in my life. I look forward to this convention, and it's just so much fun. And so to be in a position where I get to do a few extra things like this is certainly a highlight in my life.

Pat Miller: 02:01

I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Definitely wanna ask you a thousand questions about creative play and what you've learned from doing wildlife, but your background is fascinating. Tell us how you got to where you are right now because it is just unique.

Kevin Dooley: 02:15

Well, it's a long journey, but I'll make it a short story. Alright?

Pat Miller: 02:18

K.

Kevin Dooley: 02:18

I started my photography when I was about 14, 15 years old. My stepfather gave me an old Micronta 35 millimeter camera. And he was a professional photographer and had a studio. So working there, helping, I started photographing weddings as his assistant when I was about 14 or 15 and worked my way through high school. And at that point, I went into the Navy. And I was not a photographer in the Navy. I was actually an airplane director, so yellow shirt, and did that. I was one of the few that, at that time, they did three-year enlistment. So I did a three-year enlistment, and then I had to make the decision. You know, I got out of the navy when I was 20. So I was 18, 19, and 20. Right? Had to make the decision whether I was gonna stay in the Navy and make a career out of it, or become a photographer, and I decided on the photography. So when I got out of the Navy, I worked as a guide, a fishing guide for a little while. And then I moved back to New Mexico and opened my studio when I was 21, and I had that studio for 40 years, 63 now. We got to the point where we were photographing for between 400 and 600 weddings a year. And I had several photographers who were shooting for me, basically. And the problem is, is at that point, I sort of began to get a little bit burnt out, you know, in photography and about sixteen years ago, actually, and I decided that if I don't make a new direction in my photography, that there's a chance that I may have wasted all those years of learning and all of that because I just didn't know I was gonna do it any longer. And so I went in the direction of wildlife. I've always enjoyed wildlife. I've always loved nature, you know, camping, fishing, just being out there. And so I thought, what a great combination. And took that turn towards wildlife, kept the studio going. But kept building my wildlife. And now that's all I do. Shut the studio down, and I'm a full-time wildlife guy.

Pat Miller: 04:26

Full time out in the wild.

Kevin Dooley: 04:28

So long story made short.

Pat Miller: 04:30

Now it's really fascinating, though, and I want to dig in on how you got the wildlife bug, if you will. Were you just taking outdoor photos while doing the wedding business for stress release? Or really was it something you purposely started to pick up on? Or is it something that was a hobby that turned into, wait, this might be a new direction for me?

Kevin Dooley: 04:49

So, as I mentioned a couple of lines back, I do or I did a lot of fishing, a little bit of hunting, a lot of camping, backpacking. And whenever I would do those things, I would always be taking, you know, at that time, the magazines, whether it be Field and Stream, National Geographic, whatever. And I'd read these incredible stories about these people that, like, these adventurers. You know? And I was like, yeah, man. I wanna be an adventurer. You know? And so it just kept digging in, you know, and digging in until I got to that point where I was like, hey, you know, life here in Arthur isn't forever. And if you're gonna do this, you better get busy. And so that's–I just jumped in. You know? My wife is South African. She was actually my Afrikaans tutor. Okay? So I met her online. And so, her being from Africa, my desire to spend as much time there as possible, we just put this together and started and created a safari company. And it's done very well.

Pat Miller: 05:52

What did it feel like when you closed the studio and became wildlife full time? How did that feel?

Kevin Dooley: 05:58

So it was a little scary.

Pat Miller: 05:59

Sure.

Kevin Dooley: 06:00

You know, that studio was supporting me for many years. Right? And the thing about it is, I actually sort of stepped away from the studio, I would say, permanently about eight years ago or nine years ago. And so my wife and I had a couple of photographers that were still shooting for me, and they pretty much ran the studio while I was just doing wildlife. Yeah. And built up the whole safari business. Now my wife does go on safari with me. Right? Especially now, and she's always helped a lot, but she also ran the studio while I was building up the other business. But it was very scary.

Pat Miller: 06:36

Yeah. And then here we are now, and you're taking beautiful images, and we all get a chance to learn from you and talk about creative play, which we'll get to in a minute. But I do wanna know more just about the wildlife photography business. What does a day look like? What does a year look like? If someone is not familiar with how these images are captured, walk us through what that business is like so we can get an understanding of what it takes.

Kevin Dooley: 06:58

So, you know, there's kinda two parts of that. Right? Getting images published and selling artwork and those sorts of things. And then there's the part. And I do that, Okay, I've actually written two books. And I do that, but I am more now, you know, I'm a certified FGASA wildlife ranger in Africa, and it took me three years to get that certification. And so I love taking people there. I love working with people as they're gaining their images. I love the looks on their faces when they just see, like, an elephant for the first time or any of the species. And a typical day for me now when I'm on safari, I will be waking up about 4:30. I do like to have a little quiet time in my chalet or tent or wherever I'm staying, and I actually just quit drinking coffee, so now I'm drinking hibiscus tea. But I would make coffee and read a little bit, read the Bible actually, and work on my books and have a little quiet time. About 5 AM, I'll meet the group in the main foyer of the lodge. We'll have cereal. Also, there's coffees, teas, hot chocolates, juices. It's almost like a continental breakfast. And our guides and myself as well, but mostly the guides will pack up our vehicle, French press coffee maker, teas, coffees, muffins, boiled eggs, sandwiches. And by about 5:30 to 5:45, we'll take off. And the thing about it is the areas where I go on safari, there's really no reason to leave the lodge unless we have a very specific destination in mind to leave right at light because there's wildlife actually right around the lodge, you know, of the many lodges.And so we can begin photography very quickly. And we'll go out. We have radios in our vehicles. We talk to each other, the other vehicles. We learn where the sightings are and things like that. And we kinda cruise around and photograph stuff. About 9:30, maybe 10, we stop, have a snack, talk about our morning, then we continue on. And sometimes we'll go back to the lodge for lunch. Sometimes we stay out. You know, if I see a cheetah as an example that is looking like it's ready to eat, we may just park under a tree and wait and try to get, like, that cheetah in action making a hunt or something like that. Sometimes we'll stay out all day. I can get on the radio and actually radio the lodge, and they'll bring us lunch to wherever we're at. Sometimes my favorite, like cheeseburgers and french fries. And we just, by the end of the day, getting dark, maybe say 7:30 or so, we'll finish up with the sunset, maybe get some silhouettes of giraffes in the sunset or something like that, and then head back to the lodge. Depends on how far we are away from the lodge. It could be forty five minutes. It could be an hour and a half. You know? Get back, have dinner. By then, my chin's usually hitting the table. and once we finish dinner, then it's off to bed for me. You know, if I can get in bed by, say, 9 and be asleep by 09:15, you know, then I'm almost gonna get an eight-hour night. So that's the typical day on Safari, you know. And there are days when we do come back for lunch. If we have time, we might look at some images, do a little editing together. Maybe if someone's having a specific issue or whatever with their images, and we talk about it and try to get that sorted so, you know, they can get some wonderful photographs.

Pat Miller: 10:47

Yeah. Now I've had the pleasure to talk to Kevin before, and this is the type of thing that he drops in, and I know that you're thinking what I'm thinking. How do you know when a cheetah is ready to eat?

Kevin Dooley: 10:56

Oh, that's funny.

Pat Miller: 10:58

Isn't that cool? He does this all the time. I need to know, though. How do you know when a cheetah is ready to eat? So cool.

Kevin Dooley: 11:01

Alright. So there's two different things. Right? There's a cheetah made of cubs or there's a cheetah on its own. Right? Female cheetahs are primarily solitary animals unless they have cubs. Male cheetahs are not solitary. They usually stay with their brothers, actually. And so you can tell when they eat, they will just eat, eat, eat, and they'll look like they have a basketball in their stomach. Right? Their stomach just bloat out. And then within two or three days, it just goes. And then you can even almost start to see ribs. Now if the cheetah has cubs, especially if they're sub-adult cubs or a little bit older, right? She may hunt every day because they are also consuming quite a bit of the same kill that she makes. And so we judge all of that, and we say, yes. We think she's probably gonna make a kill. Hang out, and hopefully, you know? Actually, my image this year that's in the top four of the wildlife is a cheetah chasing. So if you get a chance, look at the screens that they have up here. You'll see a cheetah chasing 60 miles an hour.

Pat Miller: 12:07

Wow.

Kevin Dooley: 12:09

So yeah.

Pat Miller: 12:08

It's so cool.

Kevin Dooley: 12:09

Anything and everything you've ever seen on TV. Right? The wildlife shows on TV, it blows it away to see it in real reality.

Pat Miller: 12:17

Yeah. So he'll drop stuff like that mid-interview. I just have to stop because I need to know how you know when a cheetah is gonna eat. So I cannot be around the cheetah when it's time to eat, which would be a bad thing.

Kevin Dooley: 12:26

No. Cheetahs don't actually harm people.

Pat Miller: 12:27

Not people? Okay. We're good. Okay. I wanna ask, we're talking about creative play. And I wanna ask about creative play, but I do wanna follow-up on one more thing. You're going on safari with people. Why is it more meaningful for you to be taking people with you to expose them? Because you could be off doing your thing. You don't have to teach others. Why is this so important to you?

Kevin Dooley: 12:49

So once a person sets foot in Africa, it changes their life in a positive way, of course. To see someone that close to creation, and there's so much creation there. I mean, everything from the clouds, the sunrise, you know, even the minerals and just all the animals. It is so rewarding for me to be able to share something that absolutely amazing with another human being. And there's images in this convention, you know, that I know those people got when they were on safari with me. Yeah. It's just so incredible to be a part of that. So–

Pat Miller: 13:32

Amazing.

Kevin Dooley: 13:33

And we share such incredible conversations when we're on safari. There's something about being out in the wild that brings the emotions and the true feelings out of people where they share things that even really good friends don't share for several years. It's insane how it works.

Pat Miller: 13:55

Let's talk about creative play because that's what we're supposed to be talking about, but I'm super fascinated by all the great stuff you have to share. When you're talking with people, you're getting ready for a day or you're helping them get their mindset around how to take advantage of all these natural wonders they get a chance to see. How do you coach them through, and what do you try and get them thinking about to maybe play a little bit with all of these wonderful things they can shoot?

Kevin Dooley: 14:16

Of course. So most importantly, and I taught this yesterday in my pre-con class, to clear one's mind of any sort of distractions such as, you know, any stress you might be having, any sort of, you know, work-related things, whatever. Clear your mind completely. Fill it with happiness, and let Africa or, you know, wherever we are, Alaska, wherever we are, let that come into your mind and teach you how to live in such a positive way in life and to enjoy the things that we have been given as gifts, because there's so many wonderful things out there, but yet it seems like sometimes the difficulties sort of take those things over. And yes, it's amazing to get out there with your gear and the lenses and the cameras and all of that and to utilize that stuff, like, in a way that it's never been used. But creative play, I think, is in addition to using your gear and taking photographs, it's resting your mind and filling your mind with beautiful things that remind you that life can be so amazing.

Pat Miller: 15:31

Do you find it's easier for people to do that when they aren't on their social media, when they aren't using their cell phones?

Kevin Dooley: 15:36

I do. and you know, a lot of times, we don't have any social media out there. Right?

Pat Miller: 15:41

Yeah.

Kevin Dooley: 15:42

And so quite often, you know, we'll be in the safari vehicle. We'll be heading back to camp, and you'll have this incredible sky, you know, like the Southern Cross. And a lot of times, we'll have a beautiful view of Scorpio or, you know, so many different stars, and we stop. We turn the vehicle off. So it's pitch dark. Right? You know, there's no light noise. And you can hear lions roaring. You can hear zebras. You can hear hyenas, you know, talking amongst themselves. You can hear so many things. You know, even like the insects and the frogs or whatever. Occasionally, you get a bird that forgets what time it is and makes a few calls, you know, and so to just sit in your– in that seat and look at that sky and listen to what's going on around you, it reminds you there we are living, and there's so much living around us.

Pat Miller: 16:36

You mentioned that you read the Bible in the morning. Does it also reinforce the wonder of it all? Do you find yourself very spiritual when you're there?

Kevin Dooley: 16:45

What I find is if there's ever a hiccup in my faith, it goes away because some of the stuff we witness out there is beyond imagination.

Pat Miller: 16:56

Yeah. I would imagine another star of the show is just being in another culture going away from your home. Obviously, the landscape and the wildlife is beautiful, but to get to where you will shoot, you will go through places you've never been, talk to people you would never otherwise meet. Does that start to switch on your creativity too?

Kevin Dooley: 17:14

It does. and you know, I always say if I'm having a bad day, I always say, you know, if I can put myself in somebody else's shoes that is maybe not having as good a day as what I'm having, it really enlightens me to realize and make it easier to get through a bad day if you have one. And when you travel the world, you experience so many cultures. You see really amazing things, and you may see some sad things. You may see people that live so differently than the way we live. You may learn that, you know, having a fancy house and a roof over your head is not necessarily what everyone has. You may realize that these gourmet foods we eat are a bit extravagant in comparison to someone who might eat almost the same thing every day. And it is such a lesson in life that I just can't express, and I can't think of anything that can replace it. You know? Especially as you grow older and you've experienced more and more things, you know, I think that it's important to experience things in other people's lives or other cultures because you're missing so much if you don't.

Pat Miller: 18:29

Yeah. Let's talk about technical aspects, gear, lenses, cameras. Is that a pro when it comes to tech or to creative play? Does it get in the way of us embracing our creativity? How do you look at that?

Kevin Dooley: 18:43

Okay. So if I understand your question correctly, you know, I think we as photographers kinda go through this stage where the more gear we have, the more exciting your day is gonna be. Right?

Pat Miller: 18:57

Absolutely. Yeah.

Kevin Dooley: 18:58

And, of course, I went through that. Right? But now I have learned that the minimal amount of gear that I have means the fewer distractions that I have. Okay? So, listen. I love great gear as much as the next person. I do. You know? And wildlife gear is quite different. You know? Big lenses. However, I cannot tell you the number of photographs I've missed when my nose was in my camera bag. So now I take two cameras out with me. I take one with a Sigma 600. I take one with a Canon 200 to 800, and those sit beside me. And I don't ever change lenses. You know, I have my camera set up exactly the way I want them. It's all muscle memory. I know what buttons to push because things can happen really quick out there. Yeah. And it's more of an extension of my body. It's an extension of my, I almost wanna say, soul. You know, that camera is just a part of me. You know? And so it's just boom, boom. It's there.

Pat Miller: 20:04

It's there.

Kevin Dooley: 20:04

Yeah. So–

Pat Miller: 20:05

Shooting for competition and that restriction that you know you can't futz with the picture after you're done with it, does that aid your creativity? Because you're trying to set it up and get it just right, or does that, like, make it more difficult to be creative because you know that you can't futz with it after you're done?

Kevin Dooley: 20:20

So what it does is it prevents any sort of burnout in my photography. Because to get those kind of images that have that kind of impact to win in the categories where you, you know, you can't manipulate them too much. Right. Really, you know, you can't add things and remove things, you just have to keep trying. You have to keep trying. You know, you may get the most amazing photograph of a, you know, whatever, and then there'll be, like, this massive branch right behind the animal's head that is just so distracting or, you know, whatever. And so you just got, you keep going. And you get these dreams of these photographs. And even if you don't get in on one day, you're like, you go to bed and you dream about, you know, maybe tomorrow's the day, man. It's gonna happen. You know? So it keeps you highly motivated. And my bucket list grows longer and longer the more time I spend out there. I know I'll never fill it. Because some of the images I have in mind, you know, like a leopard as an example, they will jump in the air for birds sometimes. I want that shot so bad. Right? Yeah. And I almost got it last year, but it happened so quick. I just didn't get it. And so there's images I have in my mind that I know is, you know, they may come, but then again, they may not. So it keeps you motivated. It keeps you going.

Pat Miller: 21:41

Yeah. You made a point to me when we had the chance to talk before our interview that really, like it shook me up because I'm like, of course, that's the case. You said, unlike other photographers, you can't tell your subject what to do. Move your chin, move your shoulders, lean forward. You don't get the chance to do that. How do you get the shot when they're not cooperating?

Kevin Dooley: 22:02

Right. So you have to adjust your light with the sun. You have to adjust your subject with what they're doing. You have to adjust your background by your position. I mean, everything is how you can move about. But yet you have an animal that, you know, you can't move about too much because you might disturb them. Right? So you scan. You say, if there's a possibility I can be over here, that's where the light's good. You know, that's where the background is the cleanest, whatever. Oh, but wait a minute. There's a huge tree in my way or a boulder or there's a warthog hole there that we can't get around. So it's so challenging.

Pat Miller: 22:44

Wow.

Kevin Dooley: 22:44

But it's so fun.

Pat Miller: 22:46

So does that make you better, or do you do a bunch of creative play so you can adapt to that, or is it both?

Kevin Dooley: 22:52

I'm not sure I quite understand that question. Does it make me a better photographer by having to look around like that?

Pat Miller: 22:58

Meaning okay, so you share that this what I see is what I get, and I need to use all those different inputs and learn how to manipulate them, which obviously would improve your capacity. But also, are you ever creative playing to make sure that you know how to do those things when you're in the wild? So do those two things feed on one another to improve your skill level?

Kevin Dooley: 23:17

I think they do. So, you know, I spend eight to nine months of the year in the wild. Okay? I mean, seriously. I can spend sometimes up to three months just in Africa. And so I do this a lot, a lot, a lot. And for me, like, sometimes somebody will say to me, man, how can you get up that early every morning for that many days in a row and still be this excited and enthusiastic? And it's just, you know, my life is creative play, I guess. You know what I'm saying? And so I would say if there's any advice I could give to people in relation to using this as creative play, you've put a lot of effort, a lot of money, a lot of time into your photography. And if you do feel any sort of burnout coming on, there's so many other avenues out there where you can find passions of types of photography that maybe you haven't even done yet that will feed your soul and get you revved up and get you rolling again.

Pat Miller: 24:17

When you step back, is it kind of obvious that you ended up here? You love the outdoors so much. You love wildlife so much.

Kevin Dooley: 24:23

Without a doubt.

Pat Miller: 24:24

But you were doing weddings for so long, and now you're here. Doesn't it look like that's how the story was supposed to end up?

Kevin Dooley: 24:29

I do think so. And here's what's really interesting. Like, I was home for Christmas and you know, really, I was gonna be home for, like, two and a half months. Right? And I don't live in the city, but I live close enough. As a city person. I start to see cars. I start to hear sirens, all the things that take place in a city. Right? And when I get back out in the bush, it can take me two to three days before my mind readjusts. And I start to see as a person who lives in the wild places. And I then the animals start to appear in between the tree branches, and the sounds that I hear tell me, oh, yes. You know, that's an alarm call. There's a predator walking over there. Or I see a giraffe and the way he's holding his ears and the way his eyes are looking in a certain direction, I know if we head over there, there's probably a lion there. And so it always takes me a couple of days to get back into the swing of things. And then when I get home and I start hearing things in the city, it I can't sleep because those noises are foreign to me. Takes me a couple of days again to be able to adjust to that.

Pat Miller: 25:40

It's interesting because you're getting so immersed in your passion. It's literally two worlds that you get to go to and live in. And it's that's really, really interesting. We've only got a few minutes left. But I can't not ask you a thousand of cool questions about wildlife photography.

Kevin Dooley: 25:57

Anything you want.

Pat Miller: 25:58

You gotta tell me, of all of the wildlife, what do you love to photograph the most? Like, oh, today we went out and we saw this. Do you have a favorite?

Kevin Dooley: 26:06

It's probably tigers or snow leopards. I love leopards in general, and you know, leopard sightings are, like, awesome. But snow leopards and tigers, in my opinion, are the two most difficult animals to locate and the most difficult animals to consistently get really amazing images. Because it's, you know, in the tigers, it's jungle. Right? There's only about 3,800 tigers left in India. And so they're not always easy to find, and they're a massive challenge. And then they've got all those stripes, which can also interfere and become busy. And so it's crazy how awesome it is when you get a really cool tiger, you know, or even to see a tiger, you know. But the snow leopards, 13,000 feet you start at, minus temperatures all the time. We're lucky if we get five sightings in seven days.

Pat Miller: 27:12

Wow.

Kevin Dooley: 27:12

And then you gotta hope it's a sighting where you can get to that snow leopard. You know? Hiking 13,000 feet, it'll make you huff.

Pat Miller: 27:19

Yeah. You'll get to bed at 9:15. No problem that night. Alright. Last question on wildlife. Is there an animal that has facial expressions or personality that you know we're gonna spend half a day photographing this animal, you just know you're gonna get stuff you don't see any place else.

Kevin Dooley: 27:35

Gorillas.

Pat Miller: 27:36

Okay.

Kevin Dooley: 27:37

You know, mountain gorillas, we do that in Uganda. Elephants can also be extremely expressive. However, it's not necessarily only with their mouth or things that we might think. It's their ears. It's their head tilts. It's how they position their trunk. They have small eyes with really big eyelashes, and they are very intelligent animals. And so you can almost feel what they're trying to tell you when you're sort of, I guess, communicating with them. You know? So–

Pat Miller: 28:13

And the animals are aware of you when you're photographing them?

Kevin Dooley: 28:15

Yes and no. Most of them are. Yeah. Most of them are gonna you know. Their senses are way better than ours. Right? They pick you up usually way before you pick them up. So they know. They know and so that's why you've gotta give them some time. When you're photographing them, you gotta give them some time to settle down, start going about doing their thing. Patience is the biggie.

Pat Miller: 28:36

I bet. We've had the chance to talk all over your career and what you do. Good luck tomorrow night in the finals of the competition.

Kevin Dooley: 28:45

Thank you.

Pat Miller: 28:46

As a last word, I wanna hone in on the thing that has me really curious. If someone's watching this and something's tugging at their heartstrings, they're currently a wedding photographer, but there is something else they think they should be doing with their life. Any advice or anything you'd wanna leave them with?

Kevin Dooley: 29:00

Get off the couch and go do it. That's it. Just go do it.

Pat Miller: 29:03

Go do it.

Kevin Dooley: 29:04

You know, I mean, of course, within reason. Right? But, you know, I think anybody can do things that they wanna do if they search hard enough and try hard enough to find a way.

Pat Miller: 29:16

Oh, man. Such a great conversation. Kevin Dooley, thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Kevin Dooley: 29:20

It's my pleasure, man. My pleasure.

Pat Miller: 29:23

Thanks for tuning in to the Professional Photographer Podcast live from Imaging USA twenty twenty five, and a big thanks to Sony for making this look great. Well, as as great as you can make this look, but we appreciate you being here. So here's what's next. You need to like and subscribe to this podcast feed because we release this show every week where I get a chance to sit down with the leaders in the industry, and our point of view is to help you build a better photography business. So like and subscribe, and if you want bonus points, I'll email them to you. You'll get bonus points if you leave a comment on this episode. What did they share on the episode that you wanna make sure that you're going to put into your business so you can get further down the road? One other way you can get further down the road, become a member of PPA. If you're watching this and you're not a PPA member, come on bro.

Pat Miller: 30:14

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Pat Miller: 30:40

Talk to you soon.