The Secrets to High Ticket Sales with Whitney and David Scott

Pat Miller: 00:00

I'm Pat Miller, and this is The Professional Photographer Podcast. Did you know that the path to becoming a high ticket sales studio begins not with your camera. No. It doesn't begin with your marketing. It begins with a decision. The decision that you wanna be a low-volume, high-price studio. If you'd like to make that decision, make it stick, and make big bucks, this episode is for you. David and Whitney Scott, they do that all the time. In fact, they teach on it and they're teaching at Imaging USA. They're hosting a pre-con event to learn everything that you need to know. But on today's episode, we'll walk through the basics. How do we brand and position our studio? Where do we find these high-ticket customers and how do we get to know them? And then when we get them in front of the lens and inside our sales room, how do we go through the process of preparing them to spend big bucks and then hug us afterwards because they're so darn happy? Does that seem impossible? Does it seem like you're not capable of that? Well, one you're wrong because you are capable of it. You just have to make the decision. And two, you probably need to learn a few things and we will begin that journey today on the show. If you wanna make a bunch of money, you need to get a notebook, cup of coffee and a pen, and get ready to learn from David and Whitney Scott. They're standing by, and we'll talk to them in one moment. David and Whitney, great to have you on The Professional Photographer Podcast. Welcome to the show. How are you two today?

David Scott: 01:43

We're great.

Whitney Scott: 01:44

Doing great, Pat. Thanks for having us.

Pat Miller: 01:46

Yeah.

David Scott: 01:46

It's good to finally meet you.

Pat Miller: 01:47

Absolutely. It's good to meet you too as well. And I wanna make sure that people know how cool you are. So before we continue, I think you need to hold up your coffee mug, Whitney, because, I mean, when I saw that, I'm like, alright, he's good people. Right? Yeah. There's just something—

Whitney Scott: 02:01

I'm in Texas.

Pat Miller: 02:03

Yeah. It's just beautiful. Just beautiful.

David Scott: 02:06

Yeah. If you've never been to imaging before, if you've never been to Texas, if you've never been to Buc-ee’s, we have a date coming up at Imaging USA. I will personally take you there as a proud Texan. Let's go. Let's have some fun.

Pat Miller: 02:20

Now I gotta admit I've only heard the mythology of Buc-ee’s that we've got a quick trip here in Wisconsin, which is pretty darn cool, but I hear Buc-ee’s is a once-in-a-lifetime experience if it's not new.

David Scott: 02:31

Oh, it's a once in a trip experience. We hit it every time we go down to Texas or Missouri now. We're getting them in Arkansas, which is where we're from. We're set.

Whitney Scott: 02:41

If you were lucky enough to be one of our vendors last year at Imaging USA, we actually took our vendors' Buc ee's treats.

David Scott: 02:48

Beaver nuggets. Yeah. I'm not really sure what part of the beaver the nuggets come from, but we brought them beaver nuggets. Yeah.

Whitney Scott: 02:59

But we're here to be professionals. So good.

03:02

David Scott

Yes, we can be.

Pat Miller: 03:03

Yeah. We are. Alright. Well, let's definitely do that because we will be in Dallas together at Imaging, and I've never been. So let's go. I could use a guided tour.

Whitney Scott: 03:11

Oh, it's date.

David Scott: 03:12

I mean, for all the PPA audience, it's on me. Let's all go.

Whitney Scott: 03:16

Oh, wow. That's on vide tape.

Pat Miller: 03:18

That's right. We've got that on tape. Beaver nuggets for all my friends. This is gonna be a great trip.

David Scott: 03:25

Okay. We're off to a great start.

Pat Miller: 03:26

We'll be able to afford a boatload of beaver nuggets when we're making high-ticket sales, which is what we get to talk about today. But there's a method to unlock the opportunity. And today, we get a chance to go through all of the different steps. And I've heard you say that it starts with our brand, which can be summarized because brand is such a word that gets thrown around so much. But in the big picture, how do people perceive us and how do they perceive our studio and our work? So in your experience, helping us frame our brand for high-ticket sales, where does that begin?

David Scott: 03:59

If I could step back for just a moment, you must believe that your brand is worth it. That whatever you're cultivating and curating for yourself, for your business, for your family even, and what the business can do for your family. You have to believe in it. It's gotta be at the forefront of everything you do. And even when it's modified, still having faith in what you're doing, that you're going down the right path is going to be key. But to answer your question, when it comes to your brand, we filter everything we do through 3 or 4 basic components, whether it's social media, whether it's our presence out in the community. We have these 4 descriptor words, I guess, that we try to filter everything through that help identify us. Because if we don't fill in those blanks for our clients, even especially our potential clients, then they will fill in those blanks for us. And when it comes to feeding our kids and saving for college, we can't afford for anyone else to create those identifiers for us. We have to do it, and we have to believe in it.

Whitney Scott: 05:06

So when we teach this in person to classes, we actually have people write down what those words are. I mean, we're beginning with the end in mind. If we want people to say certain things about us, when our clients are in the community, when they're talking about us, what do we want them to say about our business? And that's where those four words come from. So, for example, our four words are creative.

David Scott: 05:29

Yep.

Whitney Scott: 05:30

Generous, because we do a lot of work with nonprofits, fun, and expensive, believe it or not. We actually want people to say, “Oh, my goodness. I went to them. The experience was amazing. The portraits were amazing, but, whoo, it was a lot because,” and we want them to follow it up with, but it was worth it.

David Scott: 05:48

But it was worth it. Yeah.

Pat Miller: 05:49

We just gotta pull the emergency break here for a second because one of your 4 words didn't really say, “Oh, high-quality portraits and amazing images,” because I think people think in their head in order to be expensive, in order to have a high-ticket sale, I gotta have all the medallions, and I gotta get in competitions, and I need to become a master. Well, then I'll be able to charge a bunch of money. But you were saying one of your 4 founding words is expensive. Can you elaborate a little bit on that? How did you arrive on that being one of your 4 words?

Whitney Scott: 06:23

All those things are important. Working on your craft, getting to a certain level in your craft. I mean, that can help you build your confidence as a photographer.

David Scott: 06:32

Definitely.

Whitney Scott: 06:33

But once you get to a certain level, I mean, I know we know a lot of photographers who are good photographers, and they make millions of dollars at photography. I didn't even say they were great. They're good, but they brand themselves well. They give a high quality, high end experience, and that is what their clients are responding to. It's not just about the photography. So I think it's important that people not get hung up on, I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. Because where does that end?

David Scott: 07:01

Yeah. It's too ethereal. There there's is in very subjective. If you've ever gone to print competition, you may look at something that moves your heart, but it scores poorly. Like, what in the world? How am I ever gonna succeed if that's, well, don't get bogged down in that. The craft of photography is extremely important, but it is not the beginning nor the end.

Pat Miller: 07:21

And in our head, I think we think we have to have permission to charge that much. I think that's the thing is that we need to position ourselves. And, Whitney, you've said it. I've heard you say it. We need to position ourselves as an investment level studio. That's an interesting way to do it. Can you expand on positioning yourself as an investment level studio?

Whitney Scott: 07:41

Yeah. When I say investment level, I just mean we need to be perceived as being worthy of the investment. Clients need to look at us and say, that's something I aspire to. I'm excited to do that, but I know if I'm gonna do that experience. If I'm gonna have that portrait on my wall, it is probably gonna be an investment. But we want them to be excited enough and anticipated enough that we've created such value that it's worth it to them.

David Scott: 08:09

Years ago, and I need to attribute this quote to Joel Grimes. He said, if you position yourself as a technician, you will be relegated to the salary of a technician. If, however, you position yourself as an artist, there's no limit to what price you can command. Yes, there are market variables in where you live, and all that plays into it, but you're not creating a widget just like everyone else in your community who's a photographer is creating that same widget. Whether it's, you know, low-end, you know, mini sessions, all the way up to custom portraits. What you do is unique to who you are, and no one else can replicate that. And if you position yourself that way, there's no limit to what you because market forces begin to dissolve.

Pat Miller: 08:57

That should be on a T-shirt. That that should be the headline of the episode. That is so spectacular. And you two working together, did that come naturally to you both? Or did one of you struggle with one or the other? Or was it just, yeah, that's what we're gonna do, we're artists?

David Scott: 09:14

Oh, no. We've been married 26 years. We've been in business full time together 17 of those 26. And Whitney's quote is, what, 95% of the time, it's great.

Whitney Scott: 09:26

Awesome. The other 5%, we don't wanna talk about.

David Scott: 09:32

But in the beginning, it was tough because this is not our first career. I'm trained in ministry. Whitney's trained in counseling psychology, which has been incredibly beneficial in how we develop the business, and we teach on psychology of sales and pricing and all that other stuff. So that really played a role in how we have advanced. But getting started as right-brained, creative types, introverts, all of those factors contributed to the, is what we're doing worth it? Is it meaningful? Can we even charge anything like this? Because look at what other people are in the comparison and the, you know, the depression that comes with that is a real struggle. And we don't discount that, and we don't want to forget where we came from, that it is a process. But my goodness, when you get to the other side of that hump, when you do position yourself in a way where you're charging, you know, what we charge and clients not only gladly pay it, but will give you a hug at the end when they leave, that validation is huge, but it is a process. Do you remember some of that?

Whitney Scott: 10:40

Yes. Yes. But I wanna talk about the high-dollar sales. Like, we can tell our story, but I, you know, really wanna give people actionable items, but they do need to know where we came from too, which is, you know, buying our kids Christmas gifts at garage sales and, you know, being in a position where we had to sell off one of our cars to start. We've been at every level, and it's kind of amazing to look now where we are and where we started, and see how much growth has taken place. But to also know that there's a method to that, and it's a method that we can teach people.

David Scott: 11:14

The validation comes from, I think, that first few big sales that we can do this. We would never pay for what we just created, but we don't have to because we are not our clients. We're servicing our clients.

Pat Miller: 11:33

And the method we're gonna get to in a second, but I do think this is important because if someone is not charging what you charge yet, they may be asking themselves those questions. Who am I to charge that much? How can I get over it? I do wanna get into the branding and the method and how we're gonna do it. We're gonna get there. But I do wanna hear, can you think back to the first time you put out a price that you would never pay and they said yes? How, what that felt like, when they said yes, what that felt like? And then you knew you were off and running, and then you could go be that level of studio. Can you think back to that time? Because I think it would be comforting to people that aren't there yet that they can do it too. Yeah.

Whitney Scott: 12:11

So when we first started doing in-person sales, and I think in person sales is a key to the higher sales, we didn't have a studio space. We were shooting on location and we would have people come to our house, and they would sit in our dining room, and we would project on our dining room wall. I mean, we created our first in-person sales video when we were at that level, and it showed us in our dining room doing this. And when we would make a sale that was—I mean, I remember a high sale for us was, like, $3,000, $2,000 at that time. And if we would make that sale, we would take them to the front door, shut the front door, and then we would do this little happy dance, and we'd be, like, jump around. And it and it was so exciting. And our sales are so much higher than that now, and we don't celebrate them that way. And I think, and sometimes I miss that because that was such an exciting time for us. But there are things to celebrate at every level. And I think our confidence grew as our sales grew and as we saw how much people valued the work and how much they were willing to pay happily for the work.

David Scott: 13:15

Just like the example of honing your craft and thinking as a photographer, you need to be creating images that are at a certain level to, you know, command a certain price, and hopefully dissolve that with that Joel Grimes quote. It's not too dissimilar from the way we sold because, as Whitney said, we sat in around our dining room table, which was an old 6-year-old farmhouse, and we had the projector on the table projecting on a wall which was painted a warm yellow color. So color accuracy was not there. It was nice. I mean, we vacuumed and picked up after our kids, and we made it look okay. But just like the example of, you know, your photography skill level, our presentation level wasn't at the point where we wanted it, but it didn't discount the fact that we could still make great sales from it because it was more than just that. It was more than just the environment. It was more than just how much we had invested in our space. That matters, but not as much as you think it does. The personal relationship you have with your client, the genuine authenticity that you bring to not just your work, but celebrating the joy with your client. All of that makes a huge difference in commanding a high sale.

Pat Miller: 14:28

We're gonna talk about how to find the right client and how to go through the actual sale in a moment, but I do wanna stay on what you're talking about now. How do we kind of brand and position the studio as a high-ticket sales experience and branding? Some of us think branding, well, that's social media. But, Whitney, you've told me that it's way more than that. It's the studio experience and how you treat the clients. So outside of what we put on our website and on social, how are you either directly or indirectly communicating with the way the studio is set up and the way that you're treating your clients in the process?

Whitney Scott: 15:02

Yeah. It's all of those things. It's this custom service element. You know, part of our process is not only that initial phone call with a client, but we are going to their home. When it's a senior client, we're taking this gigantic book with us that has samples in it. So they're seeing, they're excited, they're part of that process. And then once they come to the studio, and, of course, how we have it set up in a way that, you know, when they walk through the door, we want them to, you know, smell the certain scent that we have. We want them to see the leather couch. We want them to see the, you know, the chandelier here in the background and go, oh, yeah. I'm gonna spend some money here. But even if I think it's important to address the fact that there are people who are starting out who don't have the ability to have a studio, but you can still do so many of these things for your client to project that kind of experience, that high-service level, whether it's the way you dress, just that care that you're taking and going to their home or meeting them somewhere and customizing an experience. Even talking with a mom about each of her kids' personalities and the relationship that they have. All of those things build such value in our clients. And I think that's something you can do regardless of your space.

Pat Miller: 16:23

And David, as you're going through this process and you're doing these things that are telegraphing a high-value experience in this luxurious, you know, process that you're walking them through, even the clients that know they're gonna spend money, are they all wowing along the way? Are they feeling what you're doing? Are you showing them photos out of the back of the camera? Like, how are you including them in this amazing experience to get them ready for a sale at the end?

David Scott: 16:49

Oh, yeah. As many touch points as possible is what we try to have with our client. We do show, and we sometimes play good cop-bad cop because we work together and we know that not everyone can do that, especially if you're solo. But I'll play the good cop because I'm the nice guy, and I'll say, “Oh, that looks amazing, Whitney. Show them. Show them one.” And she'll reluctantly go, “Okay. I don't like to do this.” But she'll show, I mean, we did that yesterday. Stuff that we're not, I guess, having experience with. We were using paper, two levels, I'm going deep here.

Whitney Scott: 17:27

You're going to.

David Scott: 17:28

Two rows of paper, and we tore through one, and so we were using different levels. We've never done that before. We even cut the paper when the client was here. I mean, but we've done it long enough. We had confidence in ourselves that this is gonna look good and we're gonna have fun with it. So we're giving high fives, or I am.

Whitney Scott: 17:47

Yeah.

David Scott: 17:47

I'm the fun guy in the group.

Whitney Scott: 17:50

But clients love to participate. They love to see that it's fun for us too. And so it's kind of like when your kids are picky eaters when they're younger, and so you get them in the kitchen with you to cook. And then they want to taste the food. They wanna share it with everybody. Get your clients involved in that process. Then they take ownership of it. And that does lead to higher sales, but it also leads to happier clients in the end.

David Scott: 18:17

Yeah. And Whitney planting seeds during the photo session. After the consultation in the client's home, especially if we've looked at wall space and where something is gonna go, getting, creating that epic shot on location, and then just planting that seed, “Oh, I think this is gonna be a contender for that mantle space or whatever.” Those little things, get them involved in the process. The mom, if it's like a senior session, she's thinking that the senior could care less, but the mom is thinking about it like, “Oh, yeah. This could be it.” And that translates to when they get into the theater room, and they're sitting and watching. “Oh, I remember that's the one you said.” We don't really have to do any selling because they're already buying into that process because they're a part of it now.

Pat Miller: 19:02

Whitney, are you doing the shooting in this instance?

Whitney Scott: 19:04

Yes.

Pat Miller: 19:05

Okay. How do you hold in your head the creative vision of getting the shot while thinking, “Oh, well, that could go over the mantle.” That seems like two sides of your brains. Does that come to you naturally, or is that purposeful and you have to remind yourself to do it?

Whitney Scott: 19:19

Oh, Pat. It's so natural.

David Scott: 19:20

Did I mention she was a counselor in her formal life? It's all up there.

Whitney Scott: 19:29

Well, we've been in the client's home or I've been in the client's home, and we've really talked about what would look best in this space. Like, we need an outdoor shot. We need to look at the tones. In this room, you know, you've got browns in this room. So maybe they're wearing something more neutral. So we've already talked about this. So it's not only me saying this. It's the client as well. She's going, the mom's sitting there going, “Oh, my goodness. This could this could be the shot.” So we're both kind of having a conversation about that. And the reason it's really important, I mean, if you can get in a client's home, oh, my goodness. Do it. That's something you don't have to have a studio to do. Because if you have already planted the seed for this spot being a shot of your daughter out in a field at sunset, and maybe she's twirling in her dress, maybe we have some movement or something. If you can plant that seed with that mom, every time she walks by that room by that wall, she's seeing that image in her head. And she's buying it. Every time she looks at that empty space, she's buying a future portrait. And if you get into the sales room and she does not end up buying it, it feels like a loss. And it is so hard to not wanna kind of fulfill that vision that she has. So planting that seed is so important, and especially when you're talking about it throughout the entire process.

Pat Miller: 20:48

Let's step back for a second. You can't sell high-ticket stuff to someone that can't afford or won't afford or won't spend the money on high-ticket images. So how do you two as a team go about finding the right people to put in front of your lens knowing they will be able to be a part of a high-ticket sale in the end?

David Scott: 21:06

Well, most, we've always been referral-based, relationship-based in our marketing. We just don't spend money on traditional marketing methods. We want to get out and get to know people and get into certain circles that are more of what we would identify as our ideal client. It's just, I think, a more effective way to do with what we do, how we've structured the studio to be a very low-volume, high-average. It just makes more sense to get out and to connect with people. And that takes work, especially for two introverts because it is tiring to do this kind of marketing, but it pays off in the end.

Whitney Scott: 21:48

We kinda, we've likened it before to fishing with a pole instead of fishing with a net. We're being very targeted in who we want as a client and where those, you know, schools of fish are and going directly for those. But having said that, there's a difference between finding your ideal client and creating your ideal client. And I think it's important to figure out who can't afford what you do and people who would choose not to afford what you do. Everybody that you see on the street has an iPhone in their hand, which is, what, I don't know, $1,000, $1200?

David Scott: 22:24

12, tons.

Whitney Scott: 22:25

They're making a choice in what they purchase. People will spend on what they find valuable. So while we wanna make sure people can afford what we have to offer, once they get in the sales room, it's our job—actually, long before they get in the sales room, it is our job to cultivate a high level of value so that they then will make the choice to invest in that.

Pat Miller: 22:48

Working the referral process and new client acquisition process differently than some others do, if it's referral-based, it's relationship-based, you mentioned that you're introverts. Are you finding your way through friends of friends or interests that you have, or the kids' school and the parents' club, or you're going to be a part of the PTA or a part of the chamber? Like, what are the types of rooms that you're finding yourself in where these higher-ticket potential clients are living?

Whitney Scott: 23:16

Yes. Yes to everything.

David Scott: 23:24

Part well, yeah.

Whitney Scott: 23:25

Well, I will say we actually we did a PPA webinar, I believe, on marketing for introverts that I think they have in their archives for education. So if you wanna dive deeper into this, that would be a place that you could go and find out more information.

Pat Miller: 23:43

You're struggling with this, Dave.

David Scott: 23:45

No. I was trying to think how to approach this because we can spend a lot of time talking about that client acquisition, especially when it comes to relationships. But as an example, we've begun working with some nonprofits. We live in a great area where there is a strong presence of, whether it's American Diabetes Association, American Heart Association. So we'll work with them and building relationships with those clients instead of just fulfilling whatever their perceived needs are. Whitney is fantastic at meeting with them and asking, “Okay, what if we did this?” Dreaming with them, I guess, in some ways. And so as she does that, we're not going to some of those events as the event photographer, and there's nothing wrong with doing that. We go there as an attendee. We want to be seated at the table with potential clients. We want to look like them. We want to be perceived as generous as they are. In essence, coming up to whatever level we think our clients are at. And that has been huge for us in distinguishing us from the huge—because honestly, take a step back. No matter where you are, your area is saturated. You're not special. Everyone has tons of photographers. The question is, how are you gonna stand out from everyone else? And by positioning yourself like your ideal client, that's an automatic way to do it.

Whitney Scott: 25:12

Well, when you get to a certain level of clientele, a very, the more high-end level, they don't respond to traditional marketing. They ask their friends. Right? Because I don't know exactly why. But what we've learned is if we—

David Scott: 25:28

They're more cautious.

Whitney Scott: 25:29

They are more cautious because I think they have a lot of people who are just trying to get to them.

David Scott: 25:32

Gonna grab them.

Whitney Scott: 25:33

Yeah. And so if you can get one person in that circle, you will get the entire circle of friends because they talk to each other and they ask each other, who are you using for your senior pictures?

David Scott: 25:43

There's a trust factor that's involved in that.

Whitney Scott: 25:46

Right.

Pat Miller: 25:46

That's a brilliant point, and that makes so much sense. Thank you for sharing it. You're working with someone. They're starting the process. Whitney, when do you know, “Oh, we've got the right person in the room?” What are some of the tips and tricks and things that you look for, words they say, behaviors they exhibit that make you go, “Okay, we found the right person, and they're now in front of our lens.”

Whitney Scott: 26:09

Ultimately, you know it's the right person when they write you a big check and give you a hug. Until that point, you don't know. But I think you can know who the wrong person is. And I think you can filter them out very quickly in the first phone call. And there are kind of 2 red flags that I look for in that initial phone call. And the first is, we have a deposit that people have to pay in order to book with us. It includes a session fee and a prepurchase deposit. So it's higher. And so that kind of filters out some people. If they can't afford that, they're probably not going to be able to afford the rest of our services. Another red flag is if somebody just asks a lot of detailed questions about pricing. And you can tell they're trying to figure out how's the cheapest way I can do this. If that happens, I get really specific with them really fast because I want them to know, here's what you can expect to spend. And if they're trying to figure out the cheapest way, I will tell them, hey, this is probably the cheapest way you can do it. But if you think you'll come in and love one picture and choose to put that on your wall and spend $500, I'm gonna be really honest with you and tell you that you're not gonna be happy with that. So I wanna lay it all out there for them. And at that point, you know what? They can still choose to come to us. They can come and they can try to pick one image that they love, and they're not gonna do it because that's my job, is to make that part hard for them when they get there.

David Scott: 27:35

By creating great images.

Whitney Scott: 27:36

Yeah. But ultimately, it is their choice. And you just don't know. I'll tell you a quick story because I love this story. This was a couple of years ago. We had a a girl who wanted to do a family session with us. I kind of knew who she was. I kind of knew her situation, did not think she would be a good fit for us. I was prejudging her and told her all the information. She booked anyway. So I went to her home, and she was there with her 3 little girls. And it was basically kind of a double-wide trailer, not what we typically see. But she took a lot of care. She was redoing her living room. She was so proud of it. But I walked in, and I could tell that she had been talking about this to her daughters because her 3 little girls all had on their Easter dresses for my visit. And they had choreographed a dance for me, which, you know, that's what my sisters and I used to do, and I know that's like the height of honor when you get a dance choreographed for you. And she said, is it okay if they do their dance for you? And I said, “Oh, my goodness. Yes. Let me get my video out. I'm gonna take a video and show this to Dave.” But who do you think did her very best job photographing that family? This girl did because it meant so much to them. And they did. They end up spending $5,000. I think they paid on it over a year. But when David went to deliver their big wall portrait—

David Scott: 29:01

I think I installed it.

Whitney Scott: 29:01

I said, you get a picture of them with those girls because that was such a high value for them. And to me, that's an ideal client. It's not a client who has the big fancy house. This meant so much to them, that I'll take that client all day long.

David Scott: 29:17

Yeah. Don't take away someone else's joy. You can't prejudge them. If they want to make decisions about you and invest in you, celebrate with them. Don't, because it's kind of a natural tendency with judging and evaluating people. You're like, “Oh, I know they really can't. I feel bad about this.” I mean, go celebrate with them. Make it a joyous occasion. Reaffirm their decision to invest in you.

Pat Miller: 29:45

We get to choose if we are a high volume, low price or high price, low volume studio. You've chosen to be low volume, high price, which to your point means when you show up to a client, you get Easter dresses and choreographed dances and have this special relationship. By choosing that road, we're gonna talk about how to, like, educate them and build value and all that stuff. But just for you two, to build a business like that, it has to be really rewarding to know that you're creating a special event and a special point in their life. Remember the time we did the photos with mom with those 2 and how amazing it was? You've chosen that road. Do you feel that you are a special event when you're working with the client?

Whitney Scott: 30:26

Yes. I even tell clients that on the phone sometimes. When a client maybe has a previous experience that's only been with, you know, the photographers that they meet in the park and they pay one price, and then they don't see them again. I tell them, you know, we have clients who get Christmas card pictures every year with different photographers, and they maybe come to us once every 5 years when they're ready to do something special. We are more of a special occasion photographer. People save for us.

David Scott: 30:53

Which goes to brand and all the things we just talked about.

Whitney Scott: 30:55

Right. Right.

Pat Miller: 30:56

And that education is what's next. So we've got the right person in front of our lens. We're starting that process. What's going to end up in a big ticket sale at the end. You've mentioned how you're handling the initial phone calls. You've talked about the value, if we're not doing it already of getting into their home. Are there other things that you're doing that are building that value through the process that's educating them for what's gonna, to be a bigger payoff at the end because those two pieces are huge. What else happens in your process that helps educate and get them ready for the payoff at the end?

Whitney Scott: 31:31

So the process, yes, they do get an initial phone call just to kinda, and that's to just make sure that we're a good fit. And then the in-home consultation is next. And then we also give them a client magazine, which is a physical printed product that just, more education, showing them lots of images of artwork on walls. That's what we want them to think about through the entire process.

David Scott: 31:54

Normalizing that.

Whitney Scott: 31:56

Right.

David Scott: 31:57

This is what our clients do. So they understand, “Oh, so if I do this, I'm fitting in rather than being the anomaly.”

Whitney Scott: 32:05

And then, of course, the session itself, which is the next time that we see them. And, of course, I'm also texting back and forth with them. They're sending me maybe pictures of outfits. I've had mom send me pictures from the dressing room at Dillard's. And I love that. Or seniors send me their Pinterest boards just so I can see what kind of look they love. And then after the session, they do get another email from us about their reveal and ordering appointment because we want them to be very clear about, here's what most clients purchase. Here's the price range you can expect. You know, we combat all of the issues that tend to come up later. We want to kind of get ahead of those.

David Scott: 32:46

We do that in a frequently asked question format.

Whitney Scott: 32:50

Right.

David Scott: 32:50

Rather than do this, don't do this, don't do this. In a FAQs type of format, it's more of a, here's a question, here's an answer. Oh, okay.

Whitney Scott: 33:00

So questions like, should I bring my kids to the reveal and ordering appointment? Heck, no.

David Scott: 33:05

No.

Whitney Scott: 33:06

Please don't. But then a new thing that I've just started that has been really effective in this studio space is, you know, over here, we have our reveal and ordering room, our theater room. But in the lobby, we have very intentionally set it up for education. So when people walk in and they're getting ready to see their images for the first time, I say, let me just walk you around the lobby and show you a few things to think about. And I'm addressing issues that come up later so that we don't have them. And so things like we get, we hear from people all the time, I don't have wall space. So I will say, look here over the couch. Some people have lots of wall space, so we can do something large and impactful like this. But we also have a lot of clients who have open concept homes. So even if you do, look at this small space, behind David's head, between—show that right there. See? Between these two, it's a small wall, but we still have a 30 inch portrait there. So even if you have small spaces, we can still address that. So just walking them around and showing them things to think about before we ever get into the sales room.

David Scott: 34:13

Touch points all along the way is what's key. Even during the session, Whitney will diagram out different scenarios or even locations. If it's, for instance, a family, she'll kinda diagram, just kind of quickly draw parents together and kids as her little note card. But what it conveys to the client, because they'll sometimes see that, is that she has spent so much time behind the scenes thinking about anticipating what's the session's gonna be like. It's as if, you know, if you remember back to your dating years, especially women, you get in the car and the last thing you want to hear from the guy is, well, where do you wanna go eat?

Whitney Scott: 34:54

Yes.

David Scott: 34:55

It’s such a downer because it conveys that this guy has not thought anything about what your desires may be, what you may be interested in to eat, any of those things. And it's the pressure's on you. Well, we don't wanna do that with our client either by just showing I've thought through this, and this is kind of what I've planned out the locations and the poses and all these things, shows so much intentionality that you've bought into the process. They're buying into it as well now.

Pat Miller: 35:24

And it shows all the service before they've ever bought anything, even though they're starting to buy it in their head as you go through it. David, in your experience, was this trial and error that led you to this as far as, oh, we're gonna do a magazine and, oh, we're gonna do this? Or was this something that, formulated over the years, you learned it from someone? Tell us how all of these beautiful touch points came to be.

David Scott: 35:46

Honestly, through trial and error. I mean, because as I mentioned before, this is not our first profession.

Pat Miller: 35:53

Sure.

David Scott: 35:53

So we've just had to learn as we go, kind of like with our pricing. We didn't know how to price things, but we evaluate after every sell what worked, what didn't. And we do the same thing with interpersonal relationships. How did it—because client professions are very different. Lawyers are probably our least favorite clients.

Whitney Scott: 36:15

Oh, so true.

David Scott: 36:16

Because they are so analytical, so—

David Scott: 36:21

They’re not emotional.

David Scott: 36:21

—emotionally removed.

Whitney Scott: 36:23

Yeah.

David Scott: 36:23

Yeah. That it may, it's a challenge for us.

Whitney Scott: 36:25

All the lawyers just shut this off.

Pat Miller: 36:27

Yeah, right.

David Scott: 36:31

But a lot of listening because your clients aren't just coming for a transaction. That's not the way we've built our brand. That's not the way we built our business. They're not looking for just a transaction of I want some good images. They can go anywhere for that. And as other photographers watching this, you have permission to let them go to others. It's okay. What you are curating in your business should be something that they want to aspire to. It's human nature to, if the bar is this high, it's human nature to wanna meet that level. We don't wanna disappoint anyone. Our clients are like, anytime we go to a nice restaurant, we dress a certain way, speak a certain way, use the correct fork at certain times because we want to meet this. We don't wanna stand out as being less than. Same thing with our clients. But as your business, you have to set the bar that high. And it may be a challenge because you don't live that way. It's not who you are. We're dorks in real life. But we're trying to meet our clients where they are and create an experience for them. We don't, the salesperson at Tiffany's is probably not wearing a diamond ring from Tiffany's, but they can still sell it. And that's okay. That's what we want to be with our clients. We don't live in that world necessarily, but we can cater to it and service them in a way that makes them kinda feel like we're peers with them, which goes back to what I mentioned earlier.

Pat Miller: 37:55

That's so good. I've heard it said don't price out of your own pocketbook, and it's okay—

David Scott: 38:00

Yeah.

Pat Miller: 38:00

—to not be wearing Tiffany, but sell. That's just again, see, we've got a couple of T-shirts coming out of this episode. That's gonna be a T-shirt. We've got a few of these cooking. Okay. Whitney, we have established our brand as an investment level studio. We've qualified.

Pat Miller: 38:14

We've got the right person in front of us. You're dropping little nuggets throughout the entire session, getting them daydreaming about what they're gonna buy. And now, they're in the sales room. Is your sales process kind of follow your intuition and client by client, or is it a regimented structured way to get them from welcome, sit down, to here's the credit card? How does it work?

Whitney Scott: 38:38

Well, I mean, the hope is at this point, they're, like, 90% already there. Right? That's the goal is to make it super easy in the sales room. And I realized since we've started training a person to do sales for us, I realized how regimented we actually are. Because once I wrote it all down, I realized we do most of the same things the same way every time. And it's because we have a flow that works. So there's really 2 things you wanna think about when you're in the sales room. One is kind of that flow and figuring out exactly how to walk clients through the process. And the other is having a pricing structure that is really tight and really well thought out so that your clients naturally push themselves to the next level and you’re not having to do all the sales-y things. You’re just guiding them through the process.

Pat Miller: 39:30

And is that next-level attraction a bigger size, a more unique product, an extra print? What are some of those bridges that get them from one level to the next that we might be able to think about packaging for ourselves?

Whitney Scott: 39:44

Yeah. So, our pricing is incredibly simple. And I think that is a mistake a lot of photographers make. It's really going to the trade shows and seeing all these things I can offer my clients, and they're all great. So I wanna offer everything. For the most part, our clients have never been through a process like this before. They're confused. They wanna know the right thing to do. So making the pricing very simple and guiding them through it in a very structured way helps them. Because if they get confused, they shut down. And that's when you get, the questions, well, can I just get the digitals? Or I need to go home and think about it. That means that we are not doing our job of helping our clients make those decisions. So when it comes to pricing, first thing we do is wall art. That's what everybody does first, and we tell them that. This is what our clients normally do. They get wall art for the wall, either a single piece or a grouping of images and then they take the rest of their favorites and they purchase either a folio box or an album. And so that's the way we walk them through it. So our wall art is priced in such a way where, yes, you can get one, but guess what? If you get more than one, you're gonna get a discount on all of your wall art.

David Scott: 40:53

We're incentivizing the sales rather than packages. It's a la carte.

Whitney Scott: 40:57

Right. Incentivizing. Then when it comes to albums and folio boxes, well, they could easily feel like I'm spending too much. I don't wanna get an album or a folio box. Well, if you buy that in addition to your wall art, then you're gonna get all your digital files included. Everybody wants that. So that's what all of our clients do. They buy their wall art, and then they get a folio box or an album.

David Scott: 41:18

For us, that's the dangling carrot that gets us to where we can pretty much predict what the sale is gonna be. Yeah.

Pat Miller: 41:25

Listening into how you talk and what you've done through this process. This is what our clients do. This is the magazine and how they dress. This is what is most commonly done. At the level that you're selling, it kinda feels like I'm going to a fancy restaurant. Like, oh, well, this champagne pairs with this meal, and I don't know any better, so sure. Like, the trust that you're building with people, it just seems as though you're establishing this. This is the right way to do it, and that helps them fall into line again. I'm sure it's all by design, and a simpleton like me is just picking up on it. But that's brilliant. Like, high five because that's gotta help you get people up to the next level by positioning what the right thing to do is.

Whitney Scott: 42:07

And you're right. People want to do what's expected of them. They wanna do the right thing. We learned this when we were building onto our house. We were building on a screened in porch. And our contractor called me one day, and he said, “Hey, we're getting ready to do the ceilings, and you have these options. You know, you can do bead board. You can do Hardie panels. We could do, like, cedar. We could do a coffered ceiling. What do you wanna do?” And I was like, I've never heard those words. I was completely out of our element, and I think that's how our clients feel. What I wanted from him was for him to say, “Hey, here's the advantages of this over this, and here's the price difference of this over this.” But what I really wanted him to say was, “Hey, I recommend this because I know your situation. I know that you're comfortable with this price range, and this is gonna last a long time and this is gonna be the look you want.” Because I would have just said, I trust you. Go. And that's what we need to do with our clients is to be able to get to a point where we say, “Hey, I've been in your home. I know that this finish would look amazing. I've seen your fireplace. We have a picture of it right here. I'm gonna show you. This is the right size for it. And by the way, I know all your daughter really cares about is getting an app of her images. I'm gonna include that when you buy this.” So we're meeting our clients' needs in such a way that they are happy to hand over their credit card to us.

Pat Miller: 43:32

Amazing. And I'm sure if you're watching this right now, you're like, please, Whitney and David, don't go. And the good news is you don't have to go because people can learn from you at imaging. You're doing a pre-con class. Tell us about the pre-con class and what we'll get when we attend.

David Scott: 43:48

Oh, this will be our, I think, our second time to do a pre-con class. We love it because it is a 3-hour long intensive class, and we will be speaking on, you know, this very topic. And going into depth, Whitney is—we just didn't have time to talk about pricing structure because that's what so many photographers fail at. They run their numbers, their cost of doing business, and think, “All right, well, I priced my products this way. Let's see what happens.” Well, you've gotta be very intentional with the pricing theory, the way you've structured, so you can almost predict, like I mentioned earlier, kind of the outcome. And there's a lot of comfort in that. When you're running your own business as an entrepreneur, there's a lot of uncertainty. My goodness. When you can structure the process and how to move people through without feeling like you're selling, because that's not how we roll at all. It really relieves so much pressure. And that's part of what the class is gonna be about is how to deconstruct your pricing, how to position your products for great high-end sales.

Whitney Scott: 44:52

It's the psychology of high sales, I believe, it's what the name of it is. And our goal would be to take you from the level you're at to the next level, but to be able to also see all that's ahead of that and kind of next steps that you would wanna take beyond that.

David Scott: 45:07

Yeah.

Pat Miller: 45:07

And what an amazing way to start the imaging weekend, to spend time with you two and learn what that roadmap might look like, and then have the following couple of days to then fill in the gaps of knowledge that you're missing in order to make it come true. I know that people are gonna make money if they attend the pre-con class, and I know that you made people money today. So Whitney and David Scott, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.

David Scott: 45:31

Thank you.

Whitney Scott: 45:32

Thank you so much. We enjoyed it.

Pat Miller: 45:34

Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of The Professional Photographer Podcast. We are already deep in the lab working on our next conversation, but before you go, it helps us to know what you're liking about the show. So beyond hitting subscribe and like, because we know you're gonna do that because look at how handsome you are, you're also going to leave a comment. Really would like you to leave a comment. What did Whitney and David say that made you go, oh. Or even if you just enjoyed the episode, leave a comment and let us know. Believe me, we're watching the comment section like a hawk to make sure that we are building future episodes based on the feedback that we're getting. So seriously, like, comment, and share if you wanna be extra cool. I mean, I will give you a high five if you tell me you shared the episode. So you've got that going for you. In addition, if you're not a member of the Professional Photographers of America yet, you're missing out. PPA offers incredible resources, like equipment insurance, top-notch education, and a supportive community of photographers ready to help you succeed. It's perfect for photographers who are serious about growing their business in a sustainable and profitable way. At PPA, you belong here. Discover more about membership at ppa.com. That's ppa.com. I'm Pat Miller, Founder of the Small Business Owners Community. Thanks for joining us on this journey. We appreciate you tuning in, and we'll be right here real soon with another episode of The Professional Photographer Podcast. See you next time.