Elite Photography Positioning with Precious L. Williams

Pat Miller: 00:00

I'm Pat Miller, and this is The Professional Photographer Podcast. Do you know what type of studio you are? Now you may say, I'm a headshot photographer. Okay. That's cool. But what type of headshot photographer are you? Are you the everyman headshot photographer? Or are you doing 10 headshots a year? Are you helping old people, young people, men, women, professionals, actors, musicians? What kind of headshot photographer are you? Picking your audience, picking your prices, and going out and running for office as this person that does this thing in this way for these people, that's positioning. And if you haven't had this conversation with yourself about who you're trying to help and how, the market is having that conversation for you. What if they didn't see you as the headshot photographer for actors at all? They saw you as the kinda high school photographer that would just go in and, like, take pictures of anybody. You'd probably be pretty upset if you were trying to go for one thing and they thought you were something else. So let's have a conversation about positioning. How do we set ourselves apart from the competition, and how do we pick our audience and go tell people who we're for and how? That's what we're talking about on today's episode. Precious L. Williams is with us, and we're talking all about positioning your photography studio. We'll talk to Precious next. Precious L. Williams, welcome to The Professional Photographer Podcast. How are you today?

Precious L. Williams: 01:41

I'm great. I'm just excited to be here. I know we're gonna bring it today.

Pat Miller: 01:45

We're gonna bring it. Every time you're on stage, you bring it. That's what I love talking to you for. It's always so much fun when we get a chance to chat, and we are on your topic today. We're talking about positioning. And—

Precious L. Williams: 01:58

Yes.

Pat Miller: 01:59

—you're, really, without exaggeration, pretty much the best in the world in this. Right? Positioning, you've won awards for positioning and pitching. Can you tell people about that?

Precious L. Williams: 02:08

I definitely have. I've won a lot of awards, especially I won 7 National Business Awards this year on being innovative and small business, on being the killer pitch master, the GOAT of all forms of pitching. But one of the things I've started to realize is as great as you can be at pitching, if you don't add positioning to it, you've only done half the job. So when it comes to positioning, things have to be congruent online and offline. And how do people see you in the world? Not just what you say about yourself, but how do they see you? Are you the Kia, the Lexus, or the Rolls Royce of the photography industry. Now wait a minute. That makes so much sense. I've never heard it put that way before. The positioning is not about what you say. It's how people see you. And then you use the—

Precious L. Williams: 02:55

And perceive you.

Pat Miller: 02:56

Yeah.

Precious L. Williams: 02:57

Among your competition because we all have competition. Even the ones y'all think y'all know y'all have indirect. But positioning, this is what we talk about when it comes to making it rain, it’s slaying the game. Right? So I come from a legal background, and there are certain firms, what they call them, like, white shoe firms. They're like the top firms. And you think about like mid-level firms and you think of small firms. Well, let's take it to cars. Think of the Kia, the Lexus and the Rolls Royce. Now trust me, all those cars are going to get you from point A to point B. Would you use all of those cars from point A to point B? If you're gonna have the Rolls Royce, you're going to particular events. Right? If you're gonna use a Lexus, that's gonna be for a particular type of event. The Kia, you can use it at any time. But let's take it to your studio. Let's take it to your agency. When you think about the Kia, that's the dime a dozen. That's the ones that are all about, like, volume, but you haven't distinguished yourself. So you're lumped into this category where people can't see you as anything special. When you think of the Lexus, you're getting into premium and you're getting into luxury. So think about the photographers you would hold there. Are you there with them? These are the type of photographers people will pay a premium for and will go out of their way for. And then when you have the Rolls Royce, the Rolls Royce doesn't deal with the everyday. They don't even just deal with luxury. They're leveraged so high that to even be a client with them says a lot about you, says a lot about your brand. So they don't have to have everybody. They don't make Rolls Royces for everybody. They probably make very few a year. And so the clientele that they have are so ultra luxe that they could trade on that.

Pat Miller: 04:40

So someone's unsure about where they're at, if they're a Kia or they're a Lexus, or they're a Rolls Royce, could it be as simple as just asking a friend, how do you perceive my business? Would that be one way to go about it?

Precious L. Williams: 04:51

Well, yeah. Because I think about this as, when you think about business, this is a team sport. Regardless if you're by yourself, this is a team sport. So, like in pitching, as great as my pitches are that I could create or that I create with my clients, if they don't feel that it elevates them, that it has people looking at them in a totally different way, it won't matter. So I was doing this video and I said this, and I really wanna make sure this is clear. This is gonna help you know if you're a Kia, Lexus, or a Rolls Royce. Don't ask your family and friends. Ask trusted individuals. Ask those that you admire and respect. And one of the questions that you could ask them is why would they hire you, choose you, refer you, book you, or invest in you? And is that what they would say to others? How would they describe you to others? And I want you to listen for what they say. And if they're saying certain things that you know have a luxurious premium angle to it, you're in the Lexus category. If they see you as so heads and tails above even certain names that y'all know were old. Like, I think of Anne Leibovitz. I think about her because she photographs, you know, the elite for Vogue Magazine and for others. Right? Well, she didn't take on everybody. But she's held in such high esteem. If she takes your picture, man, you just feel like you're the best thing since sliced bread. So listen for those type what they're saying about you. Listen. If they're saying, oh, you know, you just do great pictures and I just love you, Kia. If they're saying, you know, you shot me in such a way, I saw myself totally different. Like the light, the way the light hit, like in my mind, I have a certain way I think about myself. It's here in this photograph. This is what I wanna have for the world to see. So, Pat, you may have noticed over the years, my pictures have changed on my website. They used to be more headshots, and now they're branding shots. You will see me in different locations because when I think of headshots, I think of corporate. And although I train some of the sales teams, some of the biggest companies in the world, for me, you can put me in corporate, but there's something that's gonna stand out about me. There's something in the way that I'm dressed. There's something in the way that I am positioned in that photo that lets you know I am the master of my fate and the captain of my soul, and they sought me out. There's something special here. Rolls Royce, when they talk about you in such a way where they're just like, I can't put you on everybody. It's the best of the best that have to come to you. And I have some of those people that I will only send to you, and that's how you start to know. Also, look at what you've been posting. Look at your portfolio. If you can go back in time, is what you're putting out there right now really showcasing you, your skill set, and your craft in the light that makes you Lexus or Rolls Royce? And if not, what can you do to make that that transition? Because now you're plot twisting and flipping the script and changing the narrative.

Pat Miller: 07:47

So we ask a trusted friend, which one?

Precious L. Williams: 07:49

Ask your trusted network.

Pat Miller: 07:51

Trust network.

Precious L. Williams: 07:51

I wouldn't be in 1 person. This is not a one person thing. I want you to ask several because you might start to hear things that you've never thought about yourself that will help you in how you are pitching yourself. And it changes the position that you're having online and offline and making it congruent.

Pat Miller: 08:09

How often are people surprised when they get the feedback from their trusted folks and they get it from multiple people? How often are they surprised that, wait, I thought I was Lexus and you all see me as a Kia. Does that happen a lot?

Precious L. Williams: 08:21

Yeah. It does. I often feel like people are really Lexuses, but they've been masquerading as a Kia.

Pat Miller: 08:27

Ooh.

Precious L. Williams: 08:28

Because they're looking at what's happening in the world. They're looking at, you know, they're hearing the stories, what's happening in the economy. And so, they're just trying to take on any and everyone. That's a Kia. A Lexus is targeted with who the clientele they want to come their way. So some people go back into scarcity mindset. I'll take anybody. Do you really want anybody? Do you really want anybody? Because there's some people who can't appreciate the craft that you bring and it will be reflected when you say your rates and they're looking at you like, it's gonna be $2.30. Kia move. They're for Kias. Pass them on. Also, I'll say this Pat, you know, we met years ago. And although I may not have thought of myself as a Kia, I can look back at pictures. I can look back at some of the things that I did coming out of darkness that were part Lexus, trying to get to the Lexus, that were very Kia like. And so another thing that will help you in your Lexus, Rolls Royces, who's actually around you. It's not just the people who wanna hire you. You may be around Kias that want you to stay a Kia because you elevating yourself will make them look at themselves differently. So they would tell you you've changed. You need to come back to this and you're like, in order for me to be in certain places, I am blessing myself and investing in myself to attend different types of events so that certain people can look at me, and I'm changing the narrative. I'm not going to these events anymore. These aren't decision makers. The decision makers are here and over here and this is where I need to be. That doesn't mean that you don't love your family and friends because they may send people your way, but it'll mostly likely be after you've succeeded in their eyes. Which means you need to get that Lexus status.

Pat Miller: 10:11

In one of our previous interviews, you challenged someone by saying, are you where you are intentionally or are you there by accident? Oh, that's you. That's a direct quote. So—

Precious L. Williams: 10:23

It is.

Pat Miller: 10:23

How does that relate to positioning? Because that's really good.

Precious L. Williams: 10:25

Yes. And it's a great question because sometimes we are where we are by default. Like, we didn't have a strategy in mind. We were like, any way the wind blows. And I'm like, in this day and time, that's not gonna work. You see the reason why we go to certain events, conferences, summits, and things like that is because we wanna see some elevation. But if you keep seeing the same people in the same room all the time, you're in the wrong places. You need to be around newer people who are gonna give you better ideas. You need to be in certain places. So I think about me. There were so many people who think of me that all I can do is pitch. So if they're not entering pitch competitions, do you think they're contacting me? Because they're still stuck on who they thought I was. And that's all I could do. When I started having conversations with my trusted network, and I was telling them that I'm bored. I'm ready to change the narrative, which meant I had to have a different strategy. So if I wanna get into business, into sales, client acquisition, and business development, what would that actually look like? What would the type of companies that I wanted to shoot for and what type of events do they go to? What type of charity or volunteer, or what type of things, what type of places would they be at online and offline? And that's where I need it to be. And I need to be in places where if a pitch is gonna be done, it's gonna be me. And I'm gonna blow the world. I'm not gonna start first. I wanna hear what other people are saying. So when it comes to me, I'm gonna show you the depth and breadth of my talent and how it really impacts certain people in the room that I've already designated. I want you to hear this because I'm speaking to you. Which means my clothes, which means how I postured myself, which means certain words that came out of my mouth. That's part of positioning too. So reading the room, knowing where you wanna go, it won't happen overnight, but just like anything, success is a process. If you do this by default, you're never gonna get anywhere. And the place you get, you may be happy about, but imagine if you had a strategy cutting in precision behind it. In order to make it rain and slay the game, positioning is so important. And it also shows you something else, Pat. Most people don't talk about positioning. You can look online right now. There's so many pitch competitions. There's so many people who can talk about pitching, and they're gonna talk about elevator or media or investor pitching. No one talks about speaker, sales, or interview pitches, which is how I separated myself. Second thing is, you know what people used to say about me, Pat? And they still say it today. I'm over here. I'm great at pitching. This has been all kinds of things. They're like, "Your energy." What? It's your energy that sells you. I'm all over here offended until I kept hearing it. And that was their reason for hiring me. I wasn't going to bore them. I wasn't going to make them like, please, somebody called within a fake emergency or something. They weren't going to get out of their seat and run or be like, “Oh, I gotta take this call.” There's no call. They just gotta get out of here because, and y'all may be sitting here thinking, is that really something big? Actually, it is. How many times you've been at conferences and people have bored you to tears? Don't worry. Like, Katt Williams, I'll wait. And then you'll have someone who will blow you away. You might even know their name, but you will know it afterwards. You're gonna be checking them out. You're gonna be on LinkedIn, positioning. You don't have to know everybody's name. They don't even have to know, everybody doesn't have to know how great a photographer you are. But when you speak about yourself, when you're positioning yourself at these events, when you're asking questions, by positioning yourself first, understand positioning, it sets you heads and tails above the Kia mentality, but it also prepares others for where you're going.

Pat Miller: 13:54

Let's talk about that Kia mentality because I think some people think being a Kia is great because I'll get along with everyone. But they don't wanna be Lexus or a Rolls because they don't wanna be polarizing. Can you talk about being selective and being more exclusive without feeling bad or like you're leaving people behind?

Precious L. Williams: 14:12

Well, here's the thing. I tell you, that's such a great question. Here's the thing. If you're for everybody, you're for nobody. You are gonna get people who are gonna fight you every freaking day on price. Like it don't matter if you say, “Hey, it's $200.” They're like, “$2.30.” You're like, “$2, $1.50.” So you get yourself going back, and it's like, no. The truth is the more narrow in niche you become, it changes the language you use about yourself. It changes the language of how others present you and position you too. So you don't have to go out and say, “Hey, I'm the Lexus and or I'm the Rolls Royce.” It is understanding that for different target markets, they have different challenges. So a Kia challenge is very different from a Lexus challenge. That's why you pay more for those parts when things break down or the Rolls Royce, like, oh, ooh. People at the Lexus stage and the Rolls Royce stage, they're factored in maintenance. They're not a one and done. They're gonna come back for more. If you do them right, your service is impeccable. You've already separated yourself from the Kia people. In the beginning, we all start off with, I'll take anybody who comes to the door where it's too darn hot. I live in New York. So I was just looking for one of the [inaudible 15:19] years ago. The truth is, as you go through this process and you're around others who see something in you, they're gonna pull you up too. They are like, why are you doing all of these little bitty thing when you could have 5 clients that'll make your whole year? You're not fighting for crumbs and nickels and dimes. Let that be with the people who may be just starting off and trying to learn certain things before they understand the Lexus and the Rolls Royce mentality. I mean, that's a beginner. But if you're still doing beginning things because you are allowing the news, you're allowing everyone else's fear to frighten you. You're looking at, oh, you know, certain things aren't coming in. Perhaps it's time to change and put yourself in different situations that challenge you and test you. And some of y'all were bored, but what you're doing was all, you know, because you're afraid to challenge yourself to try different niche on the side. Y'all know I could have stand and pitch till my heart stopped. But when I realized that, you know, certain celebrities were entering the pitch space in terms of investor pitching, I had to make a decision. As great as I was at what I did, is this the only thing I wanna be known for? No. So I was ready to change the narrative. This year, I learned something about myself that I never knew that I could host and emcee. An auctioneer. And I love it. You know, to double and triple sometimes what the goal of the organization is. They may give me a goal. “Hey, Precious. We want you to raise $20,000, I don't know, in 10 minutes.” And you come back with 63 in 7 minutes. Or you're hosting something and you're thinking, oh, you know, I don't sound like everybody else, but you know what? That's actually great. That's gonna force me to challenge myself to step up in a different way. And by incorporating these other things, it was bringing me into that Lexus mentality and then the Rolls Royce. So some of y'all may be in niches that have made you feel like the Kia. It's time to challenge yourself to step out into something or do something on the side that's challenging you, pushing you. Like, oh, I like it. Got my spark back. And that's how I feel. The last 2 years, I've been feeling like, oh, the spark. I feel it's like nothing else. It's like there’s still more to learn, there’s still more to do. There's still more for me out there. Positioning.

Pat Miller: 17:43

I love you saying it as a challenge too, in challenging people to grow, challenging people to level up. It's a great way, and I think a really healthy way for us to think about, accelerating the levels of service that we offer.

Precious L. Williams: 17:57

Yes.

Pat Miller: 17:57

And there's something I wanna ask you about that I know you've dealt with, that people may be feeling as you level up and as you grow, hate comes in and people get jealous and people talk bad about you. And people that used to be your clients are no longer your clients, and you're okay with it, but they might not be. How would you recommend someone deal with those that get hateful or jealous as we begin to grow and ascend with the position of the studio?

Precious L. Williams: 18:22

I'm still dealing with this, to be honest with you. And so the best things that I've learned for myself is I'm not addressing anything on social media. I'm not addressing anything that anyone says negative about me on social media. I'm on that with a net to a giant. I don't have to address everything. Every argument does not need me to be a participant. Everything that people say, I don't need to address. The second thing is putting it in the perspective of think about all the people that you love, admire, who've hit a certain level of success. Are you really gonna act like they don't have haters? Do they address their haters daily? No. Why? It takes too much energy to fight with someone who has nothing to lose. You have so much to lose. You really do. Third, I've watched people switch up on me even this year. I've seen that I hadn't been invited to certain things. I have seen people do some extremely strange things, and I've held my head up high regardless. One, rejection is God's redirection. It really is. Number 2, the spaces that I am loved and brought into, they're not there. Number 3, elevation requires separation. So maybe they're mad, maybe they're upset, and maybe it's not jealousy. It's why you. Or weren't you above years ago? Weren't you an alcoholic? Weren't you homeless? Weren't you the throwaway child? What? Throwing all the bad things that have happened in life in my face. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm on my Ariana Grande. Yes. [Inaudible 19:57] Because the thing is I'm not checking your social media to see all the places that you're in to be angry and argue. If I feel a little touched, if I feel a little hurt, it's good to have a support network. And, Pat, you know about this. Have a support network that you can share. Say, hey, I'm feeling some type of weight. And they reach back out and they let you have your pity party for 5, 10, 20 minutes. And then they put back on your big girl panties. In fact, last night, I was with SBOC family member. And I was saying something similar to this. And she said, so we gonna act like you ain't been hurt, hurt, hurt, hurt, hurt. What were they at? She said, “You upset because you've outgrown. Well, you did that 10 years ago, 14 years ago, and you won that award from that long ago when you're not even in that anymore. You've grown. Them big girl panties, they keep getting snug sometimes, sometimes they be making you feel some type of weight. But like Visa, you're everywhere they want to be.” Hey, that dust was a net to a giant. You're going places, and I would just want to address this too. Can we be honest that there are times in business where things are not in flow? They're just not. Sometimes you're waiting on that Lexus, Rolls Royce client to get back to you, and it's taking longer. Sometimes you're watching other people and you're starting to feel sad. Sometimes you wanna be that jealous person that don't wanna be nice to people. I will encourage you, like my support network. Your time is coming. You've had time before. Your time is coming. And the great thing about business is that there are cycles, and that's what we never talk about. We make it sound like every business grows exponentially all the time. Well, if you're going from Kia to Lexus to Rolls Royce, there's still a process involved and it doesn't happen overnight. So all of those steps, cumulative steps stack up and all of a sudden, bam, you're everywhere. It's like, baby, there were months when nobody wanted to know my name. Now all of a sudden, back then, they didn't want me; not hot, they all own it. But if you didn't stay persistent and consistent, you would not have beaten all resistance.

Pat Miller: 22:07

I think we need to have a rule that if someone is criticizing you and with one mouse click, you never will hear from them again, then you are not allowed to listen to their opinion. Because the block button, man, the block button, the mute button, ugh, let's say, it's like a magic button in the planet.

Precious L. Williams: 22:25

It's what I'm saying.

Pat Miller: 22:26

We don't we don't need to ever talk to you again. Blocked. Moving on with my life. Alright. Let's bring all of this home because this has been a great discussion and really inspiring to people that are trying to figure out where they wanna take their studio. And I think at the end of the day, a lot of people are held back by the question that's inside their own head. Like, whose permission do I need to identify this position and fully own it? You've seen that hold people back before that they're waiting for someone to say it's okay?

Precious L. Williams: 22:53

Yes. And to finally make the decision yourself. I wrote a blog article years ago. It say, wanna be wildly successful? Make the decision. Make the decision to be wildly successful. And that one decision, you keep pressing forward. Sometimes you're moving at a snail's pace, but still progress. And sometimes, all of a sudden, exponentially, you move forward, but you've got to keep on. But when I came out of darkness and I had my first speaking engagement unpaid, as I walked in that room and it was standing room only, I didn't know that after that speaking engagement, my next one would be before Viacom, which is now Paramount. What? Because of what I did at that unpaid engagement after not speaking for 2 years, but I made the decision. I'm committed to coming back with a vengeance. I'm committed to making it not about me, but about showing others how to write their own paychecks. I wanna show them how to bait, attract, and close because I'm gonna do it first. I was great before I hit that snag for 2 years. But if I'm worth my salt, if I'm worth the title Killer Pitch Master, I'm gonna go so hard in the paint. And I did. And there were sleepless nights, nights I cried. There were all sorts of thing. But you know what was happening, too? My name was getting out there. I left the Kias behind to be in certain rooms, deliberately making that, an intentional decision. There are rooms I need to be. I might not be able to afford it. How do I use the power of communication, the power of pitching, to get into those spaces? Who do I have to know and get on their radar? All this is a part of positioning. This is where it becomes that team effort. This is where you left the Kias behind to look at the people in your network who may not understand, who may still see you in that way, and you need to educate them so that they're able to truly understand how to position you to their network now because you're changing. You're transitioning. And it's exciting to be a part of someone's journey as they're transitioning because when they hit, you're a part of it, and they take pride in that. And then when you think about Imaging USA and PPA, what a great organization that's committed to your agency, your studio succeeding. So as you're listening to experts, and there's those of genius, eat the meat and spit out the bones. What applies? Go with it. If it doesn't apply, let it fly. It may come back 5 years later, and you'll get it. But the most important thing is, in order to be wildly successful, make the decision. And of course, you're gonna be scared. But when you make that decision, you start thinking from that place. I wanna be on this. I want to photograph this particular subject or I wanna be considered one of the greats. How do I want others, how do I wanna turn prospects into repeat clients? What experience am I creating for them? Which experience do I wanna create for them in the future? If I'm bored, how do I challenge myself to step it up in another way? And how do I bring others with me on this journey? Because a Kia life is over and PPA is dedicated to you being around these experts to grow your studio and your agency. It don't get no better than y'all dealing with Lexus and Rolls Royces here. Learn and listen. And if it doesn't apply, let it fly, eat the meat, spit out the bones, and keep going. But make a decision from this day forward. I'm going to be Lexus. So how do Lexus' move? Or if I'm Lexus, I wanna be a Rolls Royce. Where are those exclusive places I need to be seen? How do I change up the language around myself? How do I show up in these spaces? Have I asked my trusted network why would they hire me, book me, refer me, and use some of their language? Does my portfolio match up? Does what I say online match up to the Rolls Royce? Does it match to the Lexus? If not, let's get to work.

Pat Miller: 26:51

This conversation is just an appetizer. Because if you wanna learn more from Precious, not one book, multiple books. So tell us about the book or the latest one you've written and some of the others that you've written if we wanna learn more from you.

Precious L. Williams: 27:02

So, yes, I've written 5 number one best-selling books, and my 5th number one best-selling book is called Rainmaking 101 From Day 1: Packaging, Positioning, and Pitching EXPOSED. And my point in writing that book is also talking about what we're talking about today, changing the narrative and changing how you see yourself and making sure that you've been hanging with the Kias. It's time to go into the Lexus and the Rolls Royce light. So you may have some thoughts about pitching, but positioning is what's gonna separate you from, I'll take anyone who comes to the door to I'm strategically attracting the prospects that will become repeat paying clients and bring me before their network for more lucrative opportunity. So that it doesn't constantly feel like I'm big and pleading for $2.30. You have less clients paying you more because of what you provide. You take your craft seriously. So why are you hanging with Kias? Why are you trying to do all the volume in the world when it's quality that's gonna set you heads and tails above others? And that's why when you think of the Lexus and the Rolls Royce, you're not getting bargain-basement anything. That's why maintenance is so expensive. That's why they're chosen by a select audience because by working with them or purchasing from them, they're saying to the world, I only want the best of the best. I don't want what everybody else has. I want that exclusive, and I'm gonna pay a premium for it.

Pat Miller: 28:27

It's always a pleasure, Precious L. Williams. Thanks for coming on The Professional Photographer Podcast. I really appreciate it.

Precious L. Williams: 28:32

Thank you so much.

Pat Miller: 28:34

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of The Professional Photographer Podcast. Now here's what I want you to do. Put in the comments how much do you love Precious. My gosh. She's one of my favorite people to interview, and I hope that you enjoyed today's episode, and I hope you were challenged a little bit. Hmm, I'm trying to be Lexus, but I'm doing these Kia things over here. Or I'm trying to be a Kia, and I'm still being snooty in a Rolls Royce over here. Maybe I need to go back and do my homework to make sure everything is positioned correctly. Those are the kinds of thought-provoking outcomes that we want on this show. And what I want you to do with the comment is, you know, thank Precious for coming on and tell her what she said that stuck with you, but also let us know what other conversations we should have on The Professional Photographer Podcast. It really helps us build a better show. So all the standard YouTube stuff, subscribe, leave a comment, like, tell your friends. We do appreciate all that, but we really wanna know how we can make it great for you. One other thing, if you're not yet a member of the Professional Photographers of America, you're missing out. PPA offers incredible resources like equipment insurance, top-notch education, and a supportive community of photographers ready to help you succeed. It's perfect for photographers who are serious about growing their business in a sustainable and profitable way. At PPA, you belong here. Discover more about membership at ppa.com. That's ppa.com. I'm Pat Miller, Founder of the Small Business Owners Community. Thanks for joining us on this journey. We appreciate your support, and we'll be back soon with more tools to help you build your business with The Professional Photographer Podcast. See you next time.