Why Most Photographers Struggle with Profit—and How to Fix It

Pat Miller: 00:00

I'm Pat Miller and this is The Professional Photographer podcast. Do you have a hobby or do you have a business? Well, I have a business. Great. Are you making all the profit that's possible? Well, I just want to make this much, and I don't want to be pushy in the sales room. And I know my prices could be higher. If any of those things ran through your mind, this episode is for you. Jeff Dachowski is our guest today, and he knows what he's talking about when it's time to drive profit. What is our fear around selling? What is our fear around asking for what we're worth? What about being in the sales room and getting them ready to write a big check? What about our expenses and where should we save and not save? You want to bring more money into you and your family at the end of the month, that means profit. Jeff is one of the best in the industry on teaching on this topic. So let's get ready to make some more money. Jeff's standing by. We'll talk to him next. Jeff, welcome to The Professional Photographer Podcast. How are you today?

Jeff Dachowski: 01:10

I am doing great. Thank you for having me, Pat.

Pat Miller: 01:12

I'm excited to have you because you are passionate about something that we don't talk enough about, which is profit in the photography business. But before we get into that, if someone has not had the pleasure of meeting you yet, tell us who you are and what you do.

Jeff Dachowski: 01:26

Well, I'm Jeff Dachowski. I'm a professional photographer from Bedford, New Hampshire. I have a studio, kind of in the historic section of Bedford. New Hampshire is a quaint little New England town. I always joke that New Hampshire is a small state if you don't know where it is, it just been recently [inaudible]. We got a great deal. You know, the padding was free. Small little state in New England. And we primarily serve families and children, high school seniors, and commercial clients. So we are a bit of a generalist. You know, we are not only focusing on one genre. We like photographing people. And so a big wide arc of what we do, but we like what we do.

Pat Miller: 02:06

Beyond taking care of your clients, you also take care of the industry. You've been a big collaborator with PPA. Can you share your service with PPA and what you've done for everyone?

Jeff Dachowski: 02:16

Yeah, I've been somewhat involved in PPA. I did serve on the board of directors and I'm a PPA past president. I'm a PPA approved international juror. I have all my degrees except for the master artist degree, the hardest one in my opinion to get. I am a certified professional photographer. I've served New Hampshire Professional Photographers Association. I'm a member there as well as. I was their past president. I've been involved. I'm so proud that I was involved. I played a small role in passing the case. I actually lobbied congress on behalf of all the PPA members, went to D.C. and spoke to congressmen and senators about how important it is, kind of neat to see that here we are two years out and it's kind of taking root and doing good things.

Pat Miller: 03:07

Well, thanks for your service, and thanks in advance for what we're going to talk about today because we need to talk more about it. Profit, making money, the fact that it's a good thing, and that's why we are in a thing called business. So why do some photographers feel so conflicted when it comes to running a business that actually makes a profit?

Jeff Dachowski: 03:28

You know I think part of it starts off with the concept of possibly why they got involved in photography. You know, they liked photography, and they wanted to explore it as an art form and a certain form of self expression. And the first way they got paid in today, talking about the last 10 years was in likes. I mean, if we're being honest, you know, an image was posted, they were enjoyed photography. They posted an image, got 150 likes, 61comments. Their friends thought it was a great image, and that was really that driving force, might have been that, you know ,the feeling of I've done something fun or cool. People like you and people like me. I mean, I'm joking about that whole people like me, right? But that's kind of what it is. I think initially what brings people to photography, at some point they say I can make a living with this. You know, The E-Myth book talks about this. They use the example of pie baking. But in the photography we say, I can make a living with this. I would love to do this every day. And they get encouragement from their friends and families. "You should do this every day. You're really good at it." And then it comes down to the transferring of working for likes versus working for a paycheck. And then massive self-confidence or lack of self confidence jumps into the frame and says, I'm not worth it. And you see it when you look at or when you talk to people and they go, "Well, I don't want to charge an arm and a leg. I am just trying to make a little bit of money, just pay for my camera gear. I only want to make a little." These are all self-limiting terms, you know. And Allison Tyler Jones always says, "If you argue for your limitations, you get to keep them." This is where I think profit and business falls to the wayside. We started because people, we wanted them to like, transitioning to a fully different currency takes a fully different mindset in a business, a true business. Those are my opinions of why I think we initially started off with that and then that self-doubt that I mentioned earlier. Who wants to be told you're not worth it, right? So if I don't ask for much and I don't get much, then I haven't put myself out there and I've risked very little. And if I don't make very much, well, then I've got exactly what I expect. Those are all those things I think are potential contributors to why many, I mean, some established businesses don't like to talk business or project, let alone newer photographers.

Pat Miller: 06:19

We have to call out The E-Myth. If you've not read The E-Myth, it is required reading. It should be given to every entrepreneur on day one. It is a great read, and if you haven't read it, put it on your to to do list and thank Jeff later because it's a really important book. Is it an art thing? Because I don't think people start a car wash and think, oh, I just want to make 10 bucks. People start a car wash and want to make big gobs of cash. Is there an art vision kind of thing that also plays into this?

Jeff Dachowski: 06:48

Yeah, I think call it art or call it passion or whatever you want to call it. The truth of the matter, the ugly truth is I'd do this for free, if I didn't have to worry about making money. I would. I love what I do. I love photographing people. I love photographing landscapes all over the world. I've been interviewing artists all over the world right now. I'm doing a project for that. I love doing what I do, and if I didn't get paid for it, I'd be okay as long as someone's paying my mortgage and my car payments and contributing to my retirement. It's just not the case. Right? So passion, I think is a two-edged sword. It cuts both ways. It gives us the strength that we hope to have to make great imagery and to serve our clients and create beautiful art. And it's also a crutch for one of the reasons why I think we're not as business driven as we should be. Well, it's my passion. You know, art school rarely–and I'm not saying it doesn't. Every time I speak to a photographer that went to art school, they tell me that business was not spoken about in art school. I'm not [inaudible] at art school; I'm just saying that's not on their radar about thing in business. It's about creating art. And that is the currency–feel good part of that currency, they're focused on a currency that makes you feel good about the art you produce, proud about the art you produce. In fact, to just back that up, I had a conversation with an artist in Italy this few weeks ago, and she was exhausted. And she said, "It matters how I feel when I make the art more, and it's more important that I feel good when I'm making the art than what the product looks like later on." And she carries that exhaustion with her. She'd rather not make the art than to carry that exhausting feeling she had while making it. It was such an unusual phrase to me. I never thought of it that way. The joke I play when I travel is we can sleep when we're dead. You know, like let's get up at 4 o'clock and go photograph sunrise. And if we're up till 11 o'clock, 4 o'clock is just around the corner, let's get up and let's go. Found that interesting in the art world that there is a different currency there. The way they feel about themselves while creating the art could be playing a role there too. And with this one, I just recently heard that phrase I never heard before.

Pat Miller: 09:21

A great point. If you were coaching someone up that had that fear of stepping into how great their art is and the value of what their art should be, how would you help them identify what's holding them back and what would you tell them to try and break through it?

Jeff Dachowski: 09:37

Yeah. So thank you. We actually do coach a fair amount of small studios like our own. And this comes up again, circles right back to that self-confidence issue. If you don't want to make money with your camera, I applaud you. Absolutely, you should be following your passions. My wife happens to be a master photographer, and her passion is fiber art. She loves weaving a needlepoint, and she does that for free, for herself and for our family members and friends. She has no interest in say–to use the word 'corrupting' is not quite the right word. But corrupting the love she has for weaving into making it have to be a profit center for her. She absolutely puts that into art and expression for her. So if I were coaching someone who was stuck in that mindset, I would say maybe a photography studio as a way to make income or revenue isn't the right venue for this. Maybe you just make art for yourself, and you work a job that gives you satisfaction in a paycheck and you get your art satisfaction with photography. There are people there who want to do both. They really want to take in that art part again, or they want to transform their current business to the art part again, which we need to identify. We need to identify what the hangup is. Is it about asking for the sale? Is it about thinking you're worth it? Is it about the brand that you've put out there in the marketplace, you know, or any combination of those three? Or there could be external issues that are affecting all of them. I joke all the time, never take advice from people who aren't your clients, and that means your family or your friends. You know, your family and your friends are not going to pay your prices. So when they say you're too expensive, it doesn't matter, right? Because they're not your client or they're not your friend. If I am a luxury car buyer, I drive Mercedes or Maseratis or I don't care what Kias cost. Conversely, if I am a Kia driver, I don't care what Maserati's cost. It's not my brand, not the brand I buy into. So when you take advice from family or friends who are not your client, you're literally putting more stock into people who will never buy from you than the people who actually buy from you. It's a tricky branding problem, right? But that's who's in our head. I joked before, so if anyone's heard me talk, my mom told me I could really, maybe really be something in photography if I would just lower my prices. And I responded to mom, I've sold millions of dollars in photography, and I'm not going to lower my price. But from her perspective, she loved me deeply, right? All of the people she knew were on a fixed income. They were all elderly. She worked as an elderly services director of a center. And so all of the people she knew had very limited income and were not in the market for photography. So from her perspective, I could just become eligible to be in the pocketbook of those people, then I could really sell to her friends. In reality, I recognized a long time ago, people she helped or co-workers, right? They weren't my market. They weren't my target market, and they were never going to buy from me. So, I always encourage people to look at what your target market is, what do you want it to be, and make sure that you find a way to get in front of them. Now that's a marketing question. But more importantly, you need to find some success in your pricing, marketing, branding, and production of imagery for your target market for you to gain confidence to have some success. Rarely do we find confidence before success. We're always looking for some sort of positivity to bring us forward. I mean, I think you and I spoke about this a couple of years ago. Three great things can happen in your business. You can have three great deals and one negative interaction. Minor negative interaction negates all three of those fantastic events that just happened. It's crazy. So I say I would look at making small incremental changes to have successes that would then build upon their confidence to keep moving forward into a profitable structure. If you're not making money, it's just a hobby. It stinks. That's another universal truth.

Pat Miller: 14:33

I'm glad we spent so much time talking about self confidence and self perception. What we think our work is worth and the way we turn that into dollars is the actual sales activity. So let's leave self-confidence and talk about the activity of selling things. And that's a whole new bag of cats that people have an aversion to selling. Beyond our self-worth and our perception. Why do we hate sales so much?

Jeff Dachowski: 14:59

It actually doves tail pretty well with self-confidence. Right at the beginning, we talked about the currency of likes versus dollars. And I think it's fear. I think that we, as a culture–I'm talking about we as a culture of photographers, we're afraid of rejection. And that is the ultimate sense of success is when someone buys your work. One thing I'll mention before we go deep into that is photographers, if you're out there listening, there is only one place in the world that a consumer can buy images made by you and not through you. It's only the only place. Yes, they have other choices of who they can choose as artists. They can choose substrates, and they can choose a whole lot of things. But if they want to hire you, if they've chosen you, you're the only one who can produce that for them. There is no two of you. So when you're thinking about why our sales are important. Obviously, profit, maintaining our business, providing for our family. But there is an absolute sense of scarcity. There's only one of you. Sadly, we think that because there are other photographers, that there's lots of me and the client, they do have a choice. Of course, they don't have to go to you. But once they've hired you to photograph them, your policies, your prices, the way you do things, the way you print, the twin choices you make in substrates, and all the things that become part of your brand are in your hands and they've chosen you. You know, in the old days, we used to hear all the time people say how much are 8 x 10s, because the client didn't know what 8 x 10s, they didn't know what else to ask. So they'd ask, what is an 8 x 10? I don't hear them questioning. People ask a little bit about price, but in reality, they're actually more like interested in the brand. They may not ask you questions like tell me about your brand, but they want to be–they recognize that photography is a bit of an experiential buy. You're buying into the experience. If you treat them poorly, they're not coming back. And it doesn't matter how inexpensive you are. And if you treat a client great and they have extra income to spend on portraits, the pictures can be okay, but the experience is they'll pay whatever they need to be part of that experience. So for me, I think people are afraid of sales because they're afraid of rejection. I mean, for years, you know, before I understood the sales process and really dove deep trying to get better at sales, I was afraid. I mean, I created all kinds of policies about fear. In my studio, we used to sell portraits exclusively immediately after the session because I was afraid client was going to lose their job and not buy or what happens if they find another photographer. These are things that actually happened in my head in 2003. What if they do my session and they didn't like the experience? They're going to session somewhere else. People don't usually think of me as unconfident person, but while you take my passion, try to transform it into profit, and that's where my fear really started off by taking hold for a good couple years.

Pat Miller: 18:37

You brought up the word brand, and I think people get tripped up on that. The way I like to think about brand is how are you different than everybody else? Why you? Why would I choose you versus all the other photographers. Do you think that's a fair way to look at it?

Jeff Dachowski: 18:51

Yeah, it's one of the ways I describe it. I say it's how you keep your promises in the community. You know, I always talk about you need to explain what sets you apart, not how you're like everyone else. Okay to mention that, you know, if you were a portrait client, in which you are, you've got a portrait client, I've made your portraits before, I have no problem saying, well, let me tell you how we do things that might be different than what you've experienced in the past. Just explaining that things are a little bit different is pretty great. You're actually telling them we're different. You can show it and you can say it, and doing both is even more effective than doing either one individual. You can be different in your brand in the way you dress, the way you speak, the way you price, the fonts you choose, your logo, what people say about you, online presence you choose to have. You know, I could go on and on about. Are you someone who's always ranting on Facebook about something? Well, that's probably part of your brand, you just don't know it. If you're someone who just is supporting your studio and trying to be positive and lifting people up, that's also part of your brand. And some people would just be attracted to people doing well. You asked me at the beginning, how am I doing? I'm doing great. And the truth is, even if I was doing poorly, I would have answered, I'm doing great because people like to do business with people that are successful and that are positive. That's part of your brand. You know, all those things add up to your brand. It's not any one of them individually; it's all of them. And so, for me, it's what people say about you. It's part of your brand. You know, if you were to ask someone who is Pat Miller and they told you five things about Pat, then that would be your brand in their eyes and they'd be entirely correct. So when people give you a right joke about that, a reaction is far more valuable than an opinion because a reaction has no filter to it. It's just, you know, unadulterated thought versus if I asked you, Pat, how do I look today? Through your mind, it goes through a whole lot of things about how much do I like Jeff? Am I direct with him? Who am I to Jeff? Am I going to be straightforward? Am I going to tell him he looks bloated? Am I going to tell, like whatever the case may be. So when you ask people questions, you almost always get a truth or reaction. Somebody walks in and says it smells nice in here. That's a reaction. They didn't mean to drop that; it just came out, you know, which I love. So getting to branding, to your question about branding, I think it's all of that. It's a great way to think of it as well as probably five or six other great phrases to use to help people dial in what is their brand. And lastly, before we change the subject, you determined your brand. You don't let other people do it for you; you determine your brand. And there's nothing wrong with being a high volume photographer and a brand that has fast turnaround time and lower prices if your experience is based around that and that's what you've chosen to be a volume photographer. I mean, photographers I know who have their own private planes are volume photographers. So they make a lot of money, and I don't knock that at all. If you want to be a more specialized boutique type photography that hire or have a more elevated experiential photographer, I love that too. And understand that the two different brands are going to serve two different clients. They're going to attract two different clients. A volume business might look to do only email marketing where a more experiential might be looking at direct mail as a touch and feel, something physical in their hand in addition to email marketing, social media marketing, and all the things that go with it. So, it's okay to pick a brand and go with it. You decide. I beg you to `create a thought process about it and you decide what your brand is going to be. I don't want you to react to the market and what they think your brand is. You choose. You are the author of your own business as my wife Cheryl always.

Pat Miller: 23:33

Yes. And it's a great reminder. Let's talk about technique for a second. You do a good job. You shared with me. You set them up for the sale throughout the engagement. Can you talk about that? Because I thought it was really interesting.

Jeff Dachowski: 23:45

Yeah. In fact, I think you asked me at one point in our conversations, you know, tell me about the sales room. Tell me about your selling in the sales room. And I said it actually starts at the phone call. For me, in my opinion, it's a much lighter lift to do it consistently all the time than it is to talk, experience, talk, experience, and then say, now what are you going to buy? So for me, [inaudible] when I just booked a family session, I ended up going to a client's home to look at their walls and their wardrobe. You know, they live 10 minutes from here, so it wasn't a big spend of time for us. And to me, that's selling because while I'm there, I'm going to talk about where the portraits are going to hang on the wall. We're going to pull out a tape measure and start talking sizes. Right then and there and we're planting the seed. When I always talk about prices, I won't talk prices here, but I always quote a range because it just say, it starts it here and goes to here. That way, they can make the decision about where they want to start or end. Right? And that way, they're not getting hung up on that this portion is $5,000. Well, there's a range. In that phone consultation that I'm always happy to do, whether it starts in the phone call, the email, I want to start letting them know that they're going to be buying wall portraits from me, or at least portraits. We don't sell files to our portrait clients. We do, of course, to commercial clients, but to our portrait clients, we don't sell files. We sell wall art, and in fact, we install it. So all the way through the process, whether it's the consult in the studio, consult over the telephone, we are talking portraits for the wall. We are talking why we're doing this. We're talking about coming down the stairs, and we're walking into the room and enjoying that portrait on the past when every time they walk in, you're going to look at that portrait. That is pre-selling because they don't buy it. They don't buy portraits on the wall. One, they don't have any money really. But two, they're going to be referencing an enjoyment that they have to buy to get. So it's sales, underlying sales through education all the time. When we talk clothing, we talk about that these particular outfits are going to look good together, which will look great on the wall because of the colors that you have. In fact, Jamie Hayes and Mary Fitz Taylor once taught me that if you know the room you're photographing in, you could actually direct the light from left to right or right to left, depending on how the natural light feels. And I mentioned that to clients. Now I'll say, well, you get a lot of light coming in from the left. We're going to make sure to photograph this from the left. So when the portrait's on the one, then it goes from here to here, the light matches. Light from the room, matches the portrait on the wall. That sounds like I'm just talking, but I'm really pre-selling that they're buying a wall portrait, and I'm planting a seed in their head that if that doesn't sound right to them, they will address it right. No, no, no, no, hold on. We just want the files, or we just want 5 x 7s, or we're not seeing anything on the wall, you know, and that's a great time to address, I'll call them deficiencies. You know, a client's wants aren't a deficiency, but it might be deficiencies in being a good match. Maybe I'm not the right photographer for you if you only want files. In fact, I know I'm not the right photographer for you, but it's a great time to address deficiencies in the match between you and the client is when you're talking about this education, it's not just about saying, here are our policies. Sign this form. The education is about clothing and how to best set the scene, if you will, the portrait scene be enjoyed on the wall in their room. And that goes from there, then we talk about clothing while we're at the session. We talk about, this is going to look great on that kitchen wall. This is going to look great on that, you know, the dining room wall or whatever. Whatever words you've used, you're going to tie back to it. While I'm there, I'm making images of their walls so that when I use my–I use Pro Select–and so when I use that selling software, I'm going to show them their portraits on their walls and I'm going to hearken back to the conversation we had about the light traveling from left to right. I'm basically reminding them that I'm a portrait artist. And with that comes wall art. And with that comes possibly a higher price tag that offers. And then we get to the sales room. It's the fourth or fifth time they've heard me talk about wall art, and that's important to me. That's not the first time they've heard me talk about wall art.

Pat Miller: 28:43

We have so much to cover. We have to go to Lightning Round because there's so much here. You did a great job.

Jeff Dachowski: 28:49

Way too much. I'm so sorry.

Pat Miller: 28:50

No, it's brilliant. No, it's amazing. I want it to keep coming, but we gotta get through some more stuff. So like you shared with us education, sales, disguised as education. Very clever and very effective, I'm sure. What about during the session? How are you shooting for profit to open up more sales opportunities?

Jeff Dachowski: 29:09

So I'll reference Allison Tyler Jones again. She has a phrase that she says that says, "Is this for the album or is this for the wall?" Right? And so I love that concept where if a client comes and wants 40 different combinations, the time to ask, is this for the album or is this for the wall? It makes them commit, if you will, to some degree that they're going to use it for something. We don't want to just photograph that session just to burn exposures and wear our cameras. We want to photograph with purpose to complete the objective of the session. For me, I love saying, this look that we chose for your kitchen wall. I love this. Would you let me try something different? Because there's also for the other room that might be really neat because the spot is square. I'm going to photograph this. It's likely going to be used square, which is perfect spot above your barista section there, your coffee center. I think this would fit really great there. We, of course, won't know until [inaudible]. Right? And so I'm always trying to reference anytime I can to things we spoke. Not that I came to their house. I'm not saying this person [inaudible] remember the time I came to your house? I want to reference conversations and positive interactions they had when I said, you know, you mentioned you wanted this portrait. You wanted a portrait of your daughter near the piano. Right now there's two circular discs near the piano. We talked a little bit about this going vertical here. I think I'm going to face her towards where the discs, and that way it's not you come in from the left, hit a face, and then have two discs on her back, like wings. Let's face her into the discs so that the three items create a shape within your decor. You know, so I won't obviously do that the whole time because I'm trying to continue to build rapport, get the expressions that I'm looking for, and I want them laughing at the sales room and I want them laughing at the consult. I want them laughing at the session. A lot of folks, a lot of my good friends say it wasn't a cry in the sales room. Yes, you, sort of, I want them to laugh. I want them to be only thinking how much they're in love with this and be moved to tears from their joy versus fear of regret or fear of loss. I don't want people buying my portraits because this is their only chance. I mean, that is an effective tool, and we certainly use it. But the truth is this is a legacy, and I want them to feel good about. I want them to laugh. So in that session, technique-wise, I'm building rapport and I am dropping little things about. I love the shoes that dad chose because that it matches the couch, doesn't it? And then you go, that's exactly what I was thinking. And that's great. You know that they're engaged and they're hearing me. I use it. It's about rapport. I want to keep tying in things we've discussed, building on that rapport. I'll call it trust. But I never like to say the word trust because when people say trust me, it can mean they're trustworthy. It's a weird thing, you know, it's like when you say honestly, that kind of denotes that maybe you're not going to tell the truth. I'd rather use a phrase like, you know, admittedly, you know, in fact, I used it this morning. I told client in the sales room, which we call the sales room, by the way. It's not a reveal room, it's not a reveal wall. We are making sales or we're taking orders. We are absolutely focused. But I said today in the sales room. I said, you know, of course, you know, it was a good sale. And she said, this is more than I want to spend. I said, of course, it is. It's always more than people want to spend. Right? And the truth of the matter is I want you to buy portraits. That's how I make my living. I pour a lot into the session and I know you felt, and I certainly want art on your walls you enjoy, so that your daughter enjoys it for the rest of her life. And she shares it with her daughter or her children. But yeah, let's put it on the table. I want you to buy things. That's how I make my living. Admittedly, that's an unashamedly that's the confidence that I've gained in the sales room. I have no problem telling them I have to make [inaudible]. Years passed, Pat, I didn't have that confidence. It took some time to build.

Pat Miller: 33:54

Let's talk through a framework for pricing. You say you don't build off an 8 x 10 anymore. Do you build off a sales target about how much you'd like to make for a session, time and service, a number you've pulled out of the sky, as much as you can ask for with a straight face? How do you go about building your pricing?

Jeff Dachowski: 34:11

Yeah, I've always loved that one. What is [inaudible]? It's whatever can pass your lips in a [inaudible]. You know, like it's whatever price you can say for us. I know a lot of my very good friends, great studios, they work on an average sale model. They want to know we're going to photograph 40 sessions this year and it's going to be average of $6,000, whatever the $5,000 or whatever it is, and that we're going to do this many sessions at this price. We, years ago, developed what we call a parts explosion. And what that means we know what we're going to see in the course of the year, likely in total revenue. And we know that some sales will disappoint us for the amount of effort we put in, and some sales will surprise us. We make up a list of our 40 sessions. And I'm just making numbers up, so don't write them down and say, Jeff's doing this. Let's say I'm going to do 10 sessions just for ease. I'm going to say, well, we're going to do one session at $R3,000, three sessions at $4,000, two sessions at $5,000 and three sessions at $10,000. Again, I don't even know if that even equals it. And we track where we're at. And for me in the sales room, I found myself doing two things when they did hit my average. When our studio used to rely on an average, there were two things that happened. Again, I can fix it now, but I couldn't fix it then. So I figured this out. As soon as they hit the average I had in my head, I stopped selling. And this was a problem. So I lived by that average, but I died by it too. And then because I was afraid, Pat.I didn't want the average to be blown because I was going to push them. And then they go, well, let's take out one of these prints. Now, it's in a below the average that I was going to be I had just shut my mouth and beating myself up. That was the first problem I had in the sales room. The second one was that if they did hit my average, I got hurt, concerned; whatever the emotion was, it wasn't an emotion that's tied with collaboration. It was that emotion pushed me us versus them. And that, I find is a terrible way to be, if we're truly trying to collaborate with clients to find solutions and to solve the problem they have, which is legacy, I can't be a collaborator if I'm mad at them for not buying as much as they should. So for us, we determined that we were going to have a variety of sales in the course of the year. And if they hit $3,000, and that's one of our low numbers for the year, well, we check it off and we go, well, we've had our $3,000 sale. No big deal. We knew it was going to happen. We planned for it, we expected it. And when it happened, I didn't have to be mad at. I said that. We became the author of our business and we knew it was going to be a three. We knew we're going to have a $3,500. So there it is, we have one now. The rest are going to be this or the rest will be whatever. And I find that it's a good mental attitude for me. I can't say it works for everyone. It doesn't need to work for anyone else. But for us, it was a great way for us to not be mad and not stop us.

Pat Miller: 37:30

We talked about belief, we talked about selling, we talked about pricing. We can't do an episode on profit without spending at least a minute on expenses. Are there places where you see photographers wasting money or, you know, wasting profit because they're spending too much money in some areas? Where can we look to cut some expense?

Jeff Dachowski: 37:50

Well, the absolute best way to increase your profit is to raise your prices, not reduce the cost, not find a cheaper lab. Right? Because if you change, if your lab is $2 and you found one to do it for $1.75, oh, my God, I just saved 12.5%. This is fantastic. I just gained 12.5%. No, you reduced your expense at 12.5%. You changed your profit by 25% on the 200 8 x 10s. You found a lab, you changed labs, you dealt with a new ordering system. You spent hours recalibrating everything so that you could run another [inaudible]. That's literally the numbers. 25%, $0.25 savings on 40 8 x 10s. It's nothing. I have a phrase that I'm known for that the paper should play no role in pricing. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't know what things cost you as a business owner. Every good business owner knows what their revenue versus what their material costs are, of course, but the value of your 8 x 10, remember, you're the only one in the planet who can make this. And your 8 x 10 should not be based on the cost you get from a printer who's printing literally 60,000 of those prints. The multiplying factor of your print times a certain multiplier you determine its value is a fallacy. Now, I'm not talking about determining your minimum price because that's where a multiplier does make sense, where you add in your expenses divided by the 40 sessions you're going to do. And I'm sure you've talked to other guests about that, so I'm not trying to break that down. Yes, that multiplier was meant to determine your minimum price, but not what it's valued at. You set the value and that goes back to your brand and all the other things that go with it. So we don't worry about whether our paper costs are. Yes, we certainly know what they are. You know, if prices go up significantly, we want to keep a certain margin. PPA just did a great benchmark study. I have it printed here. I don't have it to reference. Sorry. It's going to be if you own a studio and your goal should be keeping 50 cents on every dollar that you take in. That's your goal. That's all your overhead, all your expenses, your Internet, your telephone, your cell phone, your car, all the things that go that fall underneath your business. They actually say like 44%, I think, is the number. I say shoot for 50 and if you end up at 48, you get a free trip to Greece. But if you shoot for 40 and you end up with 32, now you're wondering why you're not making enough money. So your question about pricing to me is about pricing it by value. That includes your brand, the quality of work you do. You already know that I'm a big fan of photographic evaluation. Becoming a great craftsman, improving your craftsmanship in photography, entering the MIR,, entering the IPC, entering your local state photographic evaluations or competitions helps give you the confidence, strangely enough, to charge more because you've gotten the feedback from your peers that this is good work. The pricing to me is again, the paper's always free, so it should play no role in the determining of your value.

Pat Miller: 41:27

It's been a great conversation on profit and sales. Let's give you the last word. What would you leave with someone if you want them to go make some more money, put more profit in the bank at the end of the month. What haven't we covered that you want to share?

Jeff Dachowski: 41:40

Oh, you know what, what we did cover is one thing you asked me about how to become more profitable in the last question. I'm sorry, I had in my head and it slipped, was the number one thing that people do to blow all their own profit is to offer discounts. They've got their 8 x 10 all set to go and it cost [inaudible]. They've got their folio or I'm going to sell this folio whenever, you know, I'm going to sell this folio for–I'll make a number up–$299. But if you buy it today, it'll be $175. You know, and that idea of discounting your work kills your brand. It kills your spirit. It reduces the confidence from the consumer because it breaks into the trustworthiness and it's all of your profit. Remember, you only got 50%. If you're an amazingly like crafted studio in their profit center and you've done everything, and you've really watched your expenses and you are priced correctly. So you give away 25% or 30% and you're leaving yourself with 20. I mean, it's just bonkers to me to think that we discount. That never feels right. I get coupons. I get Valpak coupons every week. So, I don't know if there's Valpak, and it was sponsored by. And as soon as I open, I always open to see what businesses are in there. And I think to myself every time I flip through, these businesses are all about the [inaudible] business, like this is a desperate plea. And I happen to know that some people use them, and if there isn't a coupon, they don't use. So yes, it brings people through their doors, but the cost is that there might be another way they could bring people through their doors and at a discount. So if I have to leave with something, I know we're running 10 on time. I would say believe in yourself. Believe your worth. You don't discount your work. And if you really want to understand your worth and you want to start selling higher ticket portrait sales, go get your family photographed by a professional photographer and pay their prices. The benefit in the sales room of saying, I totally understand. We were just photographed six months ago. You probably saw it on Facebook. And there's a portrait right over my living room wall. I use this frame. I love this surface. And we spent about the same amount of money as you're looking to spend. You could say that every time for years. And people, it changes everything because you believe it. Imagine going to an insurance salesman and you go, well, which policy do you have? And they go, "I don't have any policies. I don't believe in." You'd be like, okay, I'm going to find someone who does. I know you asked me for one thing. I gave you, like seven things I just had to leave you with. If you know me out there and you're listening, this all makes sense. You're like, that's Jeff. If you haven't met me yet, you're like, this guy's really [inaudible] I kind of.

Pat Miller: 44:52

That's okay. We have the Jeff decoder ring on today. We're following. Yeah, all good.

Jeff Dachowski: 44:56

You absolutely understand Jeff. That's another language. I'm really working on getting fluent in English. And I'm almost there. I mean, I'm almost there.

Pat Miller: 45:04

Great conversation. You made us a lot of money today. Jeff, thanks for coming on The Professional Photographer Podcast. I appreciate it.

Jeff Dachowski: 45:10

It is absolutely my pleasure. And thank you, Pat, for hosting and thank you, PPA, for making this another incredible [inaudible]. And I'm so pleased to be a part of it.

Pat Miller: 45:19

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of The Professional Photographer Podcast. We are already getting ready for next week's show, and you can help us make it better by liking and subscribing and commenting. How does that make us better? First of all, it makes me feel just all warm and gooey inside. When I see likes, I just likes are my favorite. And when you share it, more people learn about the show. And when you comment, we know what we're covering that's resonating with you. When Jeff said the thing, I learned the thing that helps us, and we know what topics to do and where to go deeper. So like, subscribe, comment. That is the thing you can do to help us. The thing that we can do to help you is get you into Professional Photographers of America. If you're not a member, you are missing out on incredible resources like in equipment insurance, top-notch education, and a supportive community of photographers ready to help you succeed. It's perfect for photographers who are serious about growing their business in a sustainable and profitable way. At PPA, you belong here. Discover more about membership at ppa.com.That's ppa.com. I'm Pat Miller, founder of the Small Business Owners Community, publisher of the Small Business Summary newsletter, and your host of the show. I'll see you right here next time. Take care.