Master the Art of Client Relations with Carol DeAnda

Pat Miller: 00:00

I'm Pat Miller, and this is The Professional Photographer Podcast. You love to take pretty pictures, but you also love to make the money. How does that happen? When you take a great image and you sell it to someone, the client is the key. And on this episode of the show, we're gonna sit down with PPA high performer Carol DeAnda, and we're gonna talk about the customer journey from how do I attract them to what do I do when I'm done selling them stuff? The entire bridge of the customer experience. So when they send out an inquiry, what do you do? When they're thinking about booking, what do you do? On the day of the shoot, what do you do? And Carol, what secrets do you have for us? And she's got a few. When you sit down to sell them stuff, what do you do? If they ask for the digitals, what do you do? It's kind of got a rhythm here. Doesn't like we put a little beat behind this. When you're done, what do you do? How do you follow-up? How do you stay in their world, and how do you start the cycle again for all the different products you have to offer? The client relationship is everything, and you need to listen to Carol. She knows what she's talking about. We're back with Carol DeAnda next. Carol DeAnda, welcome to The Professional Photographer Podcast. How are you today?

Carol DeAnda: 01:22

I am amazing. Finally, the sun has come out. It has stopped thunderstorming, so I'm very happy about that.

Pat Miller: 01:29

Yeah. Those spring thunderstorms, man. Sometimes they get you excited, and sometimes it's just, like, extended winter, and it's just, like, crummy out. So sunshine, we will take sunshine for sure. Alright, if someone hasn't had the pleasure of meeting you yet, tell us who you are and what you do.

Carol DeAnda: 01:44

Yeah. So, I am from Lake In The Hills, Illinois. So I'm about an hour outside Chicago roughly. And I work with families, headshots, a little bit of weddings still. And I've been doing this for seventeen years. And I opened my studio, my actual dedicated studio space not in my house back in 2019. And, yeah, I love what I do. I've been doing families for the longest, for seventeen years, but I've been doing headshots now for–when I added it up, it's already ten years doing headshots, and that's kind of a big area of my business that's expanding right now.

Pat Miller: 02:16

Yeah. I hear that from a lot of folks that the headshot side is really starting to cook.

Carol DeAnda: 02:21

Yes. I love headshots. They're great. It's like Monday through Friday and, you know, you're out by five. It's awesome.

Pat Miller: 02:30

That's great. Well, we're gonna talk about customers today and taking care of your customers and clients from start to finish. And I think, you know, stereotypically, photographers get into the business to take these great pictures, and then dealing with the customers is just, like, part of the thing. It's like a surprise thing I have to deal with. Is that kinda how you see the industry play out, too?

Carol DeAnda: 02:50

Yeah. It's like you get into photography because you love taking photos, but then you realize the taking photos is 5% and 95% is literally everything else you have to do from talking to clients, admin work, you know, editing your photos, like, all the other things you actually have to do. But the photo taking, it's this much, and everything else is this much.

Pat Miller: 03:08

Is that why you think some people get stuck? They find some initial success, but they can't continue to grow in alignment with their talent because they can't operate the studio?

Carol DeAnda: 03:17

A hundred percent. Some of the most excellent photographers I know that just have the most amazing minds, creative imagery, they're not good at the business part. So even though they can produce this amazing work, it's not a business and they're not actually making money at it. And I want to make money at what I'm doing.

Pat Miller: 03:34

Absolutely. That's the name of the game, and that's what we like to talk about here on this show. So we've got a roadmap. We're going to walk through how do we get a customer all the way through we're done with the customer. So we'll begin at the beginning, generating leads. How do you go about doing that?

Carol DeAnda: 03:50

So depending on the clientele, they're kind of some different methods. So for my headshot clients, a lot of the way that I'm getting my leads is through Google. Google search optimization, like SEO, it's, like, really, really important because most of the time, if someone's looking for a photographer for headshots, they're just googling it. It's an assistant, and, like, you just need to come up. So I really focus on that. I run Google Ads, and Google Ads have worked really well for me. I also just started trying some advertising with Yelp just to test out some different things. You know, I'm always trying different ways of advertising to see what will bring me leads. For families, it's a little more personal. I try to make a lot of connections, online, through word-of-mouth, through mom boards that I'm a part of. So that's how I kinda get the family clients. And then for the weddings that I do get, those are usually referrals as well since I've had been doing weddings for, gosh, since 2010. So most of those are word-of-mouth right now only because I'm not focusing on that area of my business. Oh, and the final area is the chamber of commerce. So I'm an active member of my local chamber of commerce. So people know me through there as well.

Pat Miller: 04:57

How do you try to tie your headshot business to the family business? Is there a strategy there?

Carol DeAnda: 05:02

Yeah. So I let my family clients know like, hey, I do headshots. And so many of my family clients then become my headshot clients because once they've already been comfortable with me in a family situation, which can be crazy, a headshot is so much easier. And a lot of the families that I work with, because of my price point, you know, they're in some jobs that, you know, they're in some powerful positions, and then they can bring me aboard to be their headshot photographer, sometimes their CEO. So it could be for the whole company. So it's been really lucrative for me to keep the different areas of my photography and not niche down so much because the different areas feed each other. And sometimes people who find me for headshots, then I tell them I do families, and I have a a gift voucher that I give them. And the gift voucher is just like a $50, you know, basically, a gift certificate. And they look on my website, then dive into the family stuff, and they've already worked with me. So they're already comfortable. So I get a lot of crossover in those two, particularly.

Pat Miller: 05:55

Let's talk about social media for a second. Facebook is full of message boards and mom groups and family groups. Are you in there? And if you are in there, how do you work them?

Carol DeAnda: 06:06

Yeah. So I try to go about it a little differently. So I try to become more of an active member and giving referrals for, like, other businesses, connecting with moms, answering questions, especially with things for local, like, recommendations for restaurants and, like, tons of things. So that then when a call does come out for, oh, I'm looking for a photographer, yes. A lot of people may post, but some people remember, "Oh, yeah. She also recommended this and this." And I think that making those more genuine connections and not just being like, "Here's my ad, here's my ad, here's my ad," has got me much more success than some of my fellow photographers in these boards because that's the only thing they really post.

Pat Miller: 06:44

I would act all indignant and say, what about the dad's groups? But, no, it's the mom's groups. We all know. We all know. It's the mom's groups for sure. You mentioned networking. Now, networking, there's a working part of networking. We can sign up for all the chambers in the world, but we have to show up. How do you find the motivation to put butts in seats and go to the actual events when it seems to be like the last thing on our list?

Carol DeAnda: 07:08

Because if you are so busy and you're not going to these events, eventually, that's gonna run out. So the most important thing is you're doing things now for things that are gonna happen three months, six months, a year from now. And the more people know you in these groups and they know you by face, the more likely you're going to be referred. A lot of chambers, you know, they have other photographers in there too. They're going to remember the person that actually showed up for the things and, you know, was helping them like set something up or helping them with whatever that might be. I try to be a helper. And I've kind of always done that. I've always liked helping people and I feel like that's really helped my business because they remember, like, you know, I helped with something completely non-related to photography, but that puts, like, a good feeling in someone, and then they're more likely to refer me too. And I just actually enjoy being helpful.

Pat Miller: 07:55

It's kind of fun being helpful. I wanna hear your elevator pitch. People kind of bag on elevator pitches, and they're like, "Yeah, you know, you don't really have to have one." But I find that when you show up and meet someone new, if you can't express what's in it for them, they're just gonna mentally ignore you straight away. So if we were at a networking event and "Oh, Carol, hi, I'm Pat. Nice to meet you. Tell me about what you do." Like, what would you say?

Carol DeAnda: 08:19

Yeah. I'd be like, "Well, hi, Pat. I'm Carol. I am a professional photographer. I've been doing it for seventeen years, so I've been around the block a few times. But I basically create everything that your life may need from your business to your family to weddings to events. So if you need something photography-related, I can probably help you. And if it's one of those little areas I don't do, I'm sure I have a friend that can help you out."

Pat Miller: 08:40

Oh, no. That's so good. Some people won't do that. Some people feel like I'm the only photographer on the planet, and I won't be a resource that goes back to helping people.

Carol DeAnda: 08:48

Exactly. And I have friends that specialize in things I don't do. I have a studio mate. Her name's Bobbi Rose, and she kills it at real estate. And I've dabbled in real estate, and I still get a lot of referrals for real estate, and I send more than 90% to her, and she's happy. And then she'll send things to me. You know, it's community over competition. And I really, really actually believe that. I want to send friends work as well. And I want to help people get the right photographer they need.

Pat Miller: 09:14

Yeah. Well, and that's true because if someone asks you to do a newborn session and you're not a newborn person, you're gonna miss the shot, and we just gotta make sure that we get the shot. It has to happen. Okay. Getting the lead is only half the battle. And now we have to turn that interest into a sale. So walk us through how you do that.

Carol DeAnda: 09:31

You respond immediately. Like, that is the biggest thing. I have so many people that reach out to me, and I respond to them as quickly as I possibly can. I have my phone programmed, with, like, kind of automatic responses where you type a few letters and it automatically kind of fills it in like text shortcuts. So I'll do that. And as soon as I respond in all of my contact forms, I require a phone number. The reason being is sometimes when someone fills out a contact form and I email them back, they might see me as spam because they technically haven't emailed me first. So as soon as I respond, I'm also having another keyboard shortcut clicking their phone number and saying, like, "Hey, this is Carol. You just reached out. I just wanted to let you know that I emailed you back. Sometimes my emails go to spam, so I just wanted to make sure you got it. Can't wait to chat with you." And a lot of times, they respond right to that text message. And they are right in that moment, especially if I responded very quickly, they're ready to talk. So if you can pounce on that, you're gonna be quicker than your competitors. And you're also responding in a timely manner. Some people, you know, they just kinda sit on it, and you can't do that. You just you can't.

Pat Miller: 10:37

And you're meeting them where they are because most people are filling out that form on their phone. Plus, the deliverability of texts is like 90% that it gets through to the recipient. They see the text when you send it. It's ridiculous. Okay, that's a really good tip. Thank you for that.

Carol DeAnda: 10:52

Yeah. No problem.

Pat Miller: 10:52

So, okay, you're texting with them. And are you doing a meeting with them to try and get something booked? Do you book them without talking to them? How do you move them through the process?

Carol DeAnda: 11:02

It depends. For headshot clients, for individuals, sometimes I'm chatting with them on the phone. We're not usually meeting in person. We're actually never meeting in person. The only people I meet in person for are wedding clients still, but everything else, usually, it's just a phone conversation. Sometimes it's not even that. Sometimes I just book over text, and I send over the contract, the invoice, they pay, and that's it. It doesn't take too much time. But for more personalized sessions, like branding, families, stuff like that, I do like to chat with them on the phone a little bit just so that they can get a sense of me, and I can answer any questions that they might have.

Pat Miller: 11:35

I'm curious about your website and your digital presence. Is there a shot or two that helps them tip over the edge of, listen, I saw that shot of the gal in the blue sweater, and I knew that you were my person. Do you have any of those signature shots that are on your social or the website that help people realize you're the one for them?

Carol DeAnda: 11:54

You know, I think one of the things I actually really like to feature on my website, it's the variety of people in all shapes, sizes, ethnicities. And I think that actually sometimes tips people over because if you just have models on your website and really beautiful people, sometimes people can't picture themselves as that person. But if you have some, like, normal-looking people, they're like, "Oh, like, I could be on their website." And they're able to actually put themselves into working with you more. So, for me, maybe not so much like the seller shop, but it's more of the inclusivity that I try to showcase in my portfolio.

Pat Miller: 12:32

Yeah. I like that. Allowing them to see themselves in your work. That's really, really smart. Okay, they don't book right away. They're playing cat and mouse with you. They're going back and forth. What is your follow-up protocol? How often and how long do you follow-up to see if they're gonna book?

Carol DeAnda: 12:48

So, don't be afraid of the phone. After I initially talk to them and they got my text message, so I will follow-up on the phone, like, usually two or three days if I hadn't heard from them since the initial kind of talking. Like, I just did two calls today to companies who inquired about company headshots. And then from there, I'll wait about a week, and then I'll send an email. I don't wanna barrage them, but I don't want them to forget either. It's this delicate balance of not overwhelming them but letting them know like, "Hey, I'm here."

Pat Miller: 13:21

You may know the number and if you do, high five, but what's your closing rate on leads? Can you guess?

Carol DeAnda: 13:27

Oh, goodness. Once they actually respond to me. So like, I'll just talk about the ones that respond and don't just go out to the ether. There are a few that do that. I would say probably about like 70% to 80%, because I follow up and so many people don't. So usually, the other thing is, especially for headshots, my pricing's on my website. My pricing's on my website for weddings too and for families. Pretty much my pricing's on my website for everything. Because of that, they have an idea of my pricing. I'm not having to sell them on how much I cost. They already have a general idea of how much I'm gonna cost them. So I think because of that, I am able to book after an initial contact more because they already have that information. And I know there's a lot of theories of thought behind it, but me, I like luxury brands. Right? If I go to Burberry, I know I'm gonna spend $3,000 or $4,000 on a coat. They don't hide that for me. I'm just like, okay, that coat's gonna be $2,000 or $3,000. I'm gonna go buy that. So I'm just not one of those photographers that kind of need them to talk to me in order to sell them on the idea of spending that much with me. Like here are my prices. This is what it is. And it saves me time.

Pat Miller: 14:36

If you were looking at your sales calls objectively, what do you think they're trying to understand about you before they say that they're in? Because if they know what you cost and they know how beautiful your work is, the last little bit to close, is that a personal connection? Is that flexibility? Is that timing? What are the things they're trying to close?

Carol DeAnda: 14:55

I think, basically, it's just like the logistics of, like, what dates this is gonna happen? Are you available? You know, I have an idea. They have an idea, but they need to know how to make that idea, you know, reality. So it's kinda more of, like, logistics and planning, planning purposes for the most part.

Pat Miller: 15:14

Sure. Now we're moving right along because now we've got a session because you close it. What was it? 106%. That was pretty amazing, very impressive closer. So we got a session because someone gave us a lead and they responded. Let's talk about the customer care during the shoot. What do you think about that?

Carol DeAnda: 15:29

You know, I always have to act unfazed. Right? So even if something's not going my way, it's very important you don't put that on your face because people can see if you're flustered because your trigger isn't working. Like, they don't need to know that. You're just gonna quietly go to your back and grab your backup because you should have backups of everything. Right? So, yeah, managing kind of yourself and your emotions and the energy that you're putting off, I think, is really important. Being a master of small talk and figuring out, like, everyone has their things they like. Right? Like, staying up to date on pop culture and, like, shows that are popular. Like, if I have a client come in and I'm like, oh, you watching anything good lately? And they say Severance. Okay, perfect. We can talk about Severance. Or if they like–we're talking, I'm gonna put music on in the studio. Oh, what do you like to listen to? I have Spotify. We can listen to anything you want. You know? Oh, you like that? I like them. So kinda connecting with them on that personal level, it kinda brings you out of just, like, Carol's just this person who's, you know, taking my picture. And they're like, oh, like I wanna talk to her about like other things as well. And I think that kind of helps build connection with clients is just commonality. Like just the things that you have in common with them. And you can really–you know, some of my clients, I ended up having really great conversations with. We're done with the shoot, done with the headshot shoot, and we talk for, you know, five, ten minutes. And when you have that kind of interaction with someone, they remember you, and they wanna come to you with any needs they have for photography. And those kind of people, they'll also tell their friends, write reviews, you know, basically be an evangelist for you, which is exactly what you want.

Pat Miller: 17:06

And it is good business to build a relationship in that way. But I believe that people look different when they're comfortable. Doesn't that make them take better pictures when they feel like you're a friend?

Carol DeAnda: 17:16

And it's just like, they almost, like, you can see they're like, [exhales] like they just relax. You know what I mean? I always throw away the first, especially for headshot sessions. Right? The first few photos, they're just warming up. And then about, you know, halfway through, you can just see the tension just leave them because now they're comfortable and they're having a good time. So I think that's really important. Same thing with families. Like, it's not so much the kids, but the parents. You can see they're just, like, they're so tense in the beginning because they're so worried about how it's gonna go. But as soon as you get that kid laughing, it's just like, they're like, oh, okay. Now I can relax. And that's just so important.

Pat Miller: 17:54

Reflect on what you've learned over the years. Is there a secret trick or a hack or something that maybe a new photographer wouldn't think of that you learned, either the hard or easy way, but you learned it over the years?

Carol DeAnda: 18:06

Goodness. There's so many. Using people's names is really important. Someone's name, basically, it's like they're just, like, tuned into hearing their name because it's just one of those things. So using their name whenever you can is really important. And if you're bad with names, on my Apple Watch, which I actually don't have on today, but I usually have it on every day. Basically, all my appointments, I'll have the clients' names in there. And if it's a family, I write everyone's name in the calendar. So the reason being is if I just go like this, well, then I see their name flash up. So that's one tip. Another tip would probably be for kids. Have Smarties available. Ask with mom and dad first if Smarties are okay, but sometimes just one little Smartie can give you a lot of cooperation. So I always have a ton of Smarties. And then I think other than that, you know, just being, like, relaxed. And even if you don't 100% know what you're doing, like if you feel unsure, if you're dealing with imposter syndrome, your clients don't need to know that. Act like you know exactly what you're doing, because if you're confident, your client's going to trust you. I think that's one of the biggest things, like just do what you're doing with purpose and like, you know what you're doing, even if maybe something's not exactly working how you want it to. And just don't show that on your face.

Pat Miller: 19:32

Now that's the second, maybe the third time you've brought that up. You mentioned it with the backup camera. Just go with it. And that there, that seems to be a real central theme that you just have to be the one that is confident because that will make them feel confident. Is that something you had to learn over the years?

Carol DeAnda: 19:49

You know, I definitely think it does. Because there's times where I'm at a shoot and I'm like, "Oh, no, just keep smiling." You know what I mean? And I've realized that, you know, there was a shoot in the beginning of my career where, you know, I wasn't like that, and the client didn't have trust with me. They never booked again. But the second I started, like, just being confident in myself and what I was doing, and how I presented myself, things kind of really changed. People want to be around confident people and people who know what they're doing because it makes them feel comfortable. So I think that has a lot to do with how you interact with your clients. And it's been really important. It's definitely something you can learn over time. But just knowing that, like, don't worry. We've all felt like we didn't know what we're doing, but just fake it till you make it, you know? That's what you got to do.

Pat Miller: 20:37

For sure. Alright. We talked about what to do. What are some of the industry adages or standard practices that just don't make any sense anymore that you think we should consider stopping?

Carol DeAnda: 20:49

Oh, my goodness. I'll think about this one. Well, obviously, I already kinda touched on it, the pricing thing. I kinda just believe in transparent pricing. And when I talk about that, all my clients are like, "Yes, you were the only one that had pricing on your website. Thank you." So I think that, for me at least, makes a lot of sense. I'm in the millennial generation, and I think as we get older, I think you're gonna see buying patterns change a little bit and people wanting better price transparency. So I definitely think that's one thing. The idea with digitals too. Like, I sell digitals. Like, people want digitals. Don't get me wrong. I also sell a lot of albums because people realize eventually that they don't really know how to make albums and beautiful products when they purchase just digitals. But just understanding that, like, yeah, people are gonna want that and not to feel offended when they ask for it because that's what they want. We're in a digital world. Other than that, I mean, I think those are, like, I guess, my two main ones that I know were long-standing kind of adages that I've kind of pushed back against.

Pat Miller: 21:52

Did selling digitals come to you naturally or did you have to give in because they kept on asking for them?

Carol DeAnda: 21:58

No. You know, I always understood that digitals, because I think my age too. Right? So I'm 36. You know, I had my first digital camera when I was, you know, in high school. And it's just always been such a part of my life that I understand that's what people want. You know? So I think with people my age, like, it's understanding that the client's needs and not taking it offensively. Like, they still love your work. They still really want your work. And they still, honestly, a lot of times, a lot of my clients buy albums and stuff like that. But it's just being, you know, okay with that. And I kinda always have been.

Pat Miller: 22:35

Let's now move to after the session. So you've shared your work, and now it's time to build that ongoing relationship with the client. So let's just presume, because I mean, you're you, it was a great session and you crushed it, and they spent a zillion dollars. And then it's just a given, of course. So now we wanna have a great relationship moving forward. So how do you go about doing that?

Carol DeAnda: 22:56

I'm gonna friend them on Facebook and I'm gonna friend them on Instagram. I friend most, or LinkedIn as well. I like to keep connection with my clients through those channels. People are online, and I try to interact with them. And a lot of my clients I end up really actually liking, and some I've even become friends with after the fact. So I'll comment on things. They get a new dog. I comment, you know, any life milestones and, you know, the more I kind of interact with them, well, they interact with me more, and then I'm kept on top of mind. And I think that's really important. It's also been a conscious choice too. So my personal Facebook page, even though it's my personal page, and I have a photography page as well, but I treat it as an extension of my business because that's how I stay connected to a lot of my clients, and they stay connected to me and they wanna know how I'm doing. They wanna know what's going on in my life, and I don't just post business stuff. That's the other thing. On my Facebook, I've also talked about my journey with ADHD. I've talked about my health journey, recipes, and, like, just other fun content that I post. And they actually interact with some of that other content more, but then I'll get an email a day or two later and be like, "Hey, we do need to book that family shoot." So did they see my fun content about me trying this crazy new drink? Maybe. But then it reminded them, like, "Oh, yeah. I wanted to do some spring photos with Carol." So I found that's been very, really helpful. And not everyone wants to do that, which I understand. But for me, it's worked really well. So that's kinda how I've approached keeping connected with clients kind of after the session.

Pat Miller: 24:33

And that's some great stuff on social. Let's talk about your owned audience, your email list. What do you do with them there? Are you creating a studio email? Are you saying individual emails? How do you go about it?

Carol DeAnda: 24:43

Yeah. So everyone that I work with, basically, they kind of go on my email list. And I use Flodesk. So basically, I'll send a few emails a year. I don't wanna barrage them because I don't want them to unsubscribe. Because every time I see someone's unsubscribed, it's like a tiny dagger in my heart. I'm like, no, you've unsubscribed. Why don't you like me? So maybe about 20 emails a year, and they're basically mainly with specials, like new things with the studio. So like when I release fall family locations and dates that I'll be available. You know, I'll have some emails go out then, holiday mini sessions, which I usually do at my studio. I'll post about them. And then in the spring, I usually do some headshot promotions where, you know, I'll just have some different stuff for, like, you know, buy one headshot, additional get one free or something like that. But I'm only sending maybe 20 emails a year. And I've been working on segmenting a little bit more for sending certain emails only to certain clients. But then what I realized is there was so much crossover of my headshot clients becoming family and vice-versa that I stopped doing that. And then I realized I was having a better result. So I actually send all my headshot emails and family emails to kind of everyone because they can kind of become, you know, each other. Sometimes, they need both. So yeah. And the email list is just so important, and I'll never forget. So Gary Hughes is a really, really close friend of mine, and he always said and hammered home, "You don't own Facebook. You don't own Instagram. You own your email list. That is really the only thing you own." And, you know, tomorrow, Facebook could just be no more, which I highly doubt, but who knows? And then what? If your only marketing strategy and your only way to get a hold of your clients is social media, like, you're putting a lot of eggs in one basket. So I've really, really tried to always keep that email list and keep adding on, you know, get people to add on and building that because that really is the only thing that's yours and back up your list too, just in case. So I back up my email list. Yeah.

Pat Miller: 26:37

Gosh, you give me a heart attack. Yes, please back up your email list.

Carol DeAnda: 26:42

Yes.

Pat Miller: 26:43

Alright. Even more old school than sending emails. You've got a Costco hack, which I think is brilliant. Can you talk about that?

Carol DeAnda: 26:48

Say that again? A Costco.

Pat Miller: 26:50

Yeah. At Costco, you use Costco cards strategically. Can you talk about that?

Carol DeAnda: 26:56

Yeah. Sometimes I'll send out cards. So because I'm connected to all of my clients on social media, I do know kind of when something's happened, whether that be good or bad. So I will send out sympathy cards. I'll send out congratulation cards, and they're real simple. They're not branded. They're not super, like, I don't want them to be that. I want them to be more personal. So I just go to Costco. I get the big thing of cards where they have cards for every occasion. Yeah. I send some cards because who doesn't like a nice piece of mail? Versus, you know, all the other stuff we get in the mailbox all the time. So I've had a pretty good success with that. You know, it's just one other way that you're gonna stick out from other people that are in their lives and other service providers. It's just that little extra step. And I don't do it for every client, but it's just, you know, I just do it, you know, here and there. And I think that really helps kinda cement that relationship, though.

Pat Miller: 27:50

With so much intentionality of the after-shoot relationship building. Can you point on the P and L, look, I get more bookings because I do this stuff?

Carol DeAnda: 28:00

For sure. It's like the accumulation of everything. I really think that I get more bookings because of that constant contact with my clients, you know, and another way that I'll talk to my clients, like I said before, when I text, when they email me, you know, sometimes I will shoot them a text because, you know, they did have that puppy and I'm like, puppy shoot? That's some cute puppy. You know, there's all these little ways you can connect with people. And I think that's just all of them altogether is just what the secret sauce is. It's not just one way. It's finding the mix of things that works best for you, your life, and your business.

Pat Miller: 28:34

We talked about everything from how do you find them to how do you dismount and care for them after the shoot? The last word on customer care. Is there anything that you haven't shared that you think the world needs to know about taking care of your customers?

Carol DeAnda: 28:46

You know, it's not that, you know, I think photographers, we get really defensive. Right? And we always think that, oh, the customer isn't always right, and we have to be right in our contract and this and this and this. And it's not about that. Like, get on the phone, number one. If you ever have an issue with a client, call them. Because I promise you, when you talk to someone in person and they can hear your voice, you're gonna solve 99% of your problems. Now I'm not saying there's not that 1% of those crazy people. They do exist. Okay. But 99% of your problems can be solved with a phone call. And I think sometimes photographers are afraid of the phone. I don't really understand why. I love the phone, but I think it's just taking care of customers all the way through and not getting so hung up on, like, having to be right and, you know, having empathy, you know. And if a client's upset about something, you know, letting them vent in a sense. Be like, oh, you know, what didn't you like about that shoot? Tell me more, like, oh, that's, you know, I can understand that. And coming up with a solution that makes them happy, but also makes you happy too. Because I'll tell you, like, for me as a consumer of other businesses, some of the companies I love the most are because there was a mistake made and how they handled that after it. And I think we as photographers need to remember that. We're human. Our clients know we're human. So we're gonna make mistakes. It's about how you correct those mistakes when you do inevitably make them. That will really make a lasting impact on your clients' minds, and they'll become your biggest evangelists.

Pat Miller: 30:16

An awesome conversation. You just made a lot of people some money. Carol DeAnda, thanks for coming on the show. I appreciate it.

Carol DeAnda: 30:21

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Pat Miller: 30:23

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of The Professional Photographer Podcast. I just love making you money. I hope you enjoyed the episode with Carol. It was great. Now before you go, can you do us a favor? Can you like this episode and maybe hit the subscribe button? Like, I personally get a text when you hit subscribe, and I personally do a dance. Not really, but just pretend in your mind's eye you're gonna hit subscribe, and I'm going to dance. And when you're 6'4" and devastatingly handsome like me, wink, dancing looks really weird. So hit subscribe, will you? Also, leave us a comment. The comments are how we know we're doing something good. We want to know what did you like about what Carol had to say, and what are you going to implement into your photography business? The other thing is, if you're not yet a member of Professional Photographers of America, you're missing out. PPA offers incredible resources like equipment insurance, top-notch education, and a supportive community of photographers ready to help you succeed. It's perfect for photographers who are serious about growing their business in a sustainable and profitable way. At PPA, you belong here. Discover more at PPA.com. That's PPA.com. Thanks for tuning in. I'm Pat Miller, Founder of the Small Business Owners Community and the publisher of the minty fresh Small Business Summary newsletter. Thanks for joining us on this journey, and we'll see you back here real soon.