Fearless Financial Review with Bee Trofort-Wilson

Pat Miller: 00:00

I'm Pat Miller, and this is The Professional Photographer Podcast. This is the episode you need to see, not the one you want to see because I'm going to talk with you today about the one thing I know you hate: money. How much do you keep? How much do you charge? How much do you spend? The fact that you always have to worry about it, the push-pull between taking great pictures and minding the business. You hate all that stuff. I know you do. I see you. But today, Bee Trofort-Wilson is gonna come on and help clear the air. She teaches fearless financial management, and you need to hear this. I know you don't wanna hear it, but you need to hear this. And here's what's fun. Bee is so fun and so smart and so talented. She makes a conversation about money that you would normally run from actually fun to listen to. So together, we're gonna lock arm and arm, and we're going to sit down and talk about money even though we don't want to. Sound good? Trust me. Bee's amazing. We'll welcome her on to The Professional Photographer Podcast next. Bee Trofort-Wilson, welcome to The Professional Photographer Podcast. How are you today?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 01:23

I'm doing so great. How about you?

Pat Miller: 01:25

I'm doing great. You know, it's turning spring. I just booked a tee time for the weekend. You know? Life is good for me. What are you doing for fun nowadays?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 01:34

I actually just came back from Jamaica for a five-day project, so feeling very good. Didn't get the tan that I wanted, but made some great work.

Pat Miller: 01:42

That is significantly cooler than golfing in Milwaukee. I've gotta tell you. You win. If someone hasn't had the pleasure of meeting you yet, tell us about who you are and what you do.

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 01:52

So my name is Bee Trofort-Wilson. I'm currently based in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm a commercial and editorial photographer that specializes in sports and fitness, and I'm also the owner of a rental photography studio called Bee Fearless Studio.

Pat Miller: 02:05

And you get to talk to us today about something that nobody wants to talk about. Before we even talk about the thing, what is it like to be the person that talks about stuff nobody wants to talk about?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 02:13

It's very weird. But you have to try to make it fun. So I think that's the cool thing, and the cool challenge about it is how to make this fun to where people are interested in learning because I didn't wanna hear about it either. So if I can make myself listen to myself, I think it's pretty cool.

Pat Miller: 02:29

Well, together, we will have fun with the topic of fearless financial management of our studio. And it starts as all things do, as an entrepreneur, with how do we think. So how do many creatives and photographers think about the money that comes into the studio?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 02:44

I think for me personally, especially with my experience, I think oftentimes as creatives, we don't think like business people. You know, we start thinking of how to be an artist and how to be the best artist, not realizing that at the end of the day, we are entrepreneurs, and it's best to be a great business person over a great artist, if that makes sense.

Pat Miller: 03:03

And is it also the misconception that, hey, I sold this package for 5 grand, and then wait, where did all the money go? That the money we bill isn't the money we keep. Is that still fuzzy for people?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 03:15

That's still very, very fuzzy for people. Every time I'm talking with people about just financial literacy or financial management, I'm always letting them know just because your business made money doesn't mean that you made money. You know? Oftentimes, we put all that money into one big account thinking that we can spend it on anything, not realizing that your business has its own overheads. And you have to start managing your money and managing your income to where your business is one EIN. It's basically one body, and so are you. So how are you splitting your finances to make sure that both bodies can take care of themselves?

Pat Miller: 03:46

Even though you do a great job communicating this, is there a little bit of people have to experience not handling the money right before they realize how serious this is?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 03:57

Yeah. I think, you know, as most people are, you know, as students, as we say, we all like to learn the hard way sometimes. You know, sometimes we would get advice. I remember getting advice about, don't rush it to be an adult. It's not that fun. I'm here. I'm like, I should've taken my time. I should've listened a little bit more. But I think it's somewhat, you know, especially as an entrepreneur, once you start having those bigger responsibilities when it comes to your finances and you're struggling a little bit, that's when you start to take it more seriously. And oftentimes, we try to help people and help them learn that, hey, here's what happened to me in the past. Here's what I learned the hard way, and here's how I want to make sure that you guys don't have to go through those challenges of going through those difficulties of managing your money, of being a little bit more financially literate, of reading books, listening to the YouTubes, listening to the different podcasts, and actually taking your finances seriously, especially when you wanna become a homeowner or when you wanna start doing different things that adults are doing. You have to prepare yourself for those things.

Pat Miller: 04:55

I personally felt adults with air quotes. Like, adults. Like, I felt that when it comes down to making the choices with our cash. I wanna know of all the things that you could teach on. How did you fall into teaching people about handling their money?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 05:11

It kind of just naturally happened. Usually, my education is based on lighting and different things like that, but I start to realize that there's this huge gap where a lot of people are educating themselves on how to be the best in lighting, how to be the best in editing. But if you look at the greats in photography, when you're looking at the greats in just business, it's all about being a great business person. And most of the people who are great business people are the ones who have striving careers that last much longer than those who are just so creatively great. You know? And that's a conversation I started having a lot with the younger peers that I'm working with and just with younger individuals in general of how do we actually take our business seriously and how to start thinking like a business and not just thinking like an artist and not just doing all these passion projects with no ROI, but actually taking my craft seriously to where I can actually live off of it and I can take care of myself and knowing that you can help yourself do it and others can do it as well.

Pat Miller: 06:03

Let's talk about passion projects for a second because passion projects are fun. It's why we take pictures. It's part of the joy of being a photographer, but they don't always pay the bills. So how do you tell people to stay in love with your craft but making sure that you're making money at the same time?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 06:19

That's the biggest thing. When it comes to passion projects, we're always told, you know, you wanna chase what you love. You wanna do the things that you enjoy. You wanna be able to create. Even as me as an artist, I'm always doing passion projects. I'm always doing test shoots. But I had to realize as a business person and as an entrepreneur, what is my ROI? You know? Because I do have overheads. I do have all these different things. So if I'm doing this passion project, am I just doing it just to make myself feel good, or am I doing it to have a greater outcome? You know? When we think about investments, when we think about stocks, we're not putting our money into stocks or into all these investments just to make ourselves feel good. We're hoping for a return on our investments later on. So even with your passion project, it's about taking it seriously and understanding that, hey. If I do this passion project, what's gonna be my ROI? Am I gonna do an email newsletter to potential clients of this passion project that I did, hoping that they're gonna hire me in the future? Or am I gonna do these different? Am I gonna do a gallery exhibit and invite art buyers and photo editors and people to actually see my work, hoping that they can fall in love with my work and my passion and hire me for those projects? You know? So sometimes, I tell people it's great to be passionate about things, but you always wanna think about, how is this going to return on my business? Am I just gonna post it on Instagram and hope for the best? Or I'm actually gonna do something passion-wide, but allow that passion to fuel my business, whether it's year on end, and be able to create some income from that later on in the future. Because at the end of the day, we're a business. It's great to be artists, but if you're paying your bills with your camera, you have to take it seriously and hope that you're getting that return on that investment.

Pat Miller: 07:51

Now on your screen, there's a little arrow that lets you skip back fifteen seconds. Click that a few times and listen to that answer again. Because what you said, be passionate all you want, but have a purpose for all of those great images that you capture. The thought of doing a passion project for a great email marketing campaign is just like, poof. When you make that kind of connection, it kind of, I don't wanna say it this way, but it kinda decriminalizes playing. Like, playing is great because you can play with a purpose. Is there anything more about that that you can go into? Because I think that's a really important concept.

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 08:24

Yeah. I think, you know, it's always about being creative even within your marketing. As business people, we're talking about finances. But when you're thinking about marketing your business, there's no one way to do it. So even when you're doing personal projects, whether it's email newsletters, whether it's gallery exhibits, whether it's posting it on LinkedIn, you always wanna have some type of strategy in mind when you're starting these projects. Yes. It's great to start it for the love of it, but you still wanna think about, if I do this passion project, is it gonna sit on my hard drive just saying, oh, I did this project? And that's it. And now it's just sitting on my hard drive, and now I'm looking back on, like, do I really feel fulfilled from that? You know? So I'm I always challenge people, and I challenge myself as well. If I'm going to do a personal project, still making sure that my business is still at top of priority because at the end of the day, I want my business to grow. I want my business to strive. So how can I still utilize this passion to fuel my business at the end of the day?

Pat Miller: 09:16

Yeah. It's so good. So good. Thank you for sharing that. I wanna ask one more question about how we think about cash because people have a relationship with money. It's bigger than just our business. It's how we were raised. It's how we spend money when we're out at an amusement park or whatever it might be like we have a relationship with money. So how do you fix someone's relationship with money if it has not been healthy up until now?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 09:42

It's similar to dating. You know, I remember, especially growing up in my household, we don't speak a lot about finances. I remember in high school, we had one class on budgeting, about how to budget and balance a checkbook. In college, I got my BFA in photography, but we didn't have any business classes to talk about the money or anything like that. So when I became an adult, it's like, oh, man. I have bills. How am I gonna pay for this? How am I gonna do this? And I remember I was shooting a financial literacy event years ago, and one of the women who was speaking asked everyone, if you get a feeling in your stomach every time you have to open your bank account on your phone, raise your hand. And over 75% of the room raised their hand. And I didn't raise my hand because I was holding the camera. But, internally, I wanted to raise my hand. But then that made me think about and even listen a little bit more on that conversation where they're like, you know, everyone has a relationship with money, and you should not be scared to look at your bank account. So for me, I had to learn just different ways to practice on how to trust myself, but also how to not be afraid of looking at my accounts to also challenge myself of where I can do better. How can I hold myself accountable? How can I budget better? How can I strategize my financial planning? And how can I be more mature with my finances? Because, you know, when you first graduate college, you're going out with your friends. You're all going out to eat. Everyone's checking their accounts to make sure that their card's not gonna decline and embarrass them in front of everyone. You know, we all go through those challenges, especially as an entrepreneur. But as an entrepreneur, you do have a little bit harder because you're not getting that check every two weeks. You know? You're not getting that direct deposit. You have to make your own income, and you have to strategize for how to do those things. So especially when it comes to money, it's like dating, and it's like trusting yourself, but also building great habits to where you're not afraid to look at your account. You can go in there confidently knowing what's in there or knowing what's coming in and knowing that you're the one that's responsible for that and being able to trust yourself and trust your finances even more with that.

Pat Miller: 11:38

So now we're changing our behavior. We're beyond how we think about money. Now we're actually doing the work of being fearless with our finances.

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 11:45

Yes.

Pat Miller: 11:46

So being willing to open the bank account without wanting to, you know, have an uncomfortable situation. What about budgeting? What do you recommend for people about how to actually handle the money? I got the account open. Now I don't know what to do with it.

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 12:00

Right. So for me, I actually do the Profit First method. I learned about this method right after COVID from one of my mentors, and I actually went to an event where they spoke a little bit more about it. And for me, that actually changed the life of not just myself, but my businesses as well. Because that Profit First method is basically an accountability partner where twice a month, you have to go into your accounts. You have to look at the income that you made for those two weeks, and you have to allocate those funds to where they should go. And for me, that was a game changer for my business, as well as for how I manage my money. Because one, now I knew where my money was going. I was able to put money aside from my taxes. I was able to pay myself And, also, trust that process of knowing that I'm doing a strategy, and I'm doing something that's working for me, and I'm allocating my money to know it's going to where it needs to go, and I'm not just pinching and figuring it out, or just throwing, oh, I'm just gonna pay myself $50 here because I feel good about it, and put this money here, but actually having a strategy and holding myself accountable to that twice a month.

Pat Miller: 12:59

That's why I like the Profit First system. I find it gives me a lot of peace because I don't have to worry about the taxes because I'm withholding for them every year. I don't have to worry about payroll running at the end of the month because I know that I've got a owner's compensation account that's all set up. But that still doesn't make it not weird when it's time to pay ourselves. People get weird about taking money out of the business. Why do we feel so weird about that?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 13:23

For me, personally, I was always taught that as an entrepreneur, your business makes all the money and you don't make any of it. And then sometimes we feel as if we want to invest so much in our business growing that we don't deserve to pay ourselves yet. And I realized for me, when I knew that I wanted to buy a house, I had to start paying myself. I had to start putting that money aside and doing those different things and understanding that I actually deserve it because I'm the main worker in one of my businesses. So because I'm the main worker, why am I not paying myself? And why am I feel feeling guilty of paying myself when I'm doing so much work behind the scenes? You know? And I think that was one of the shifts when it came to running my business and actually looking at my finances and understanding that, hey. I deserve this. But also, as a woman, if I know that I wanna be able to be married, buy a house, take care of my kids, I have to have some type of strategy in place to make sure that I can do that and my business can still run and still make money without me if I'm not working in it. So that was just a way for me to help me, one, not feel as guilty about paying myself, but actually putting something in a system in place to where everything was able to run smoother.

Pat Miller: 14:33

When I'm coaching small business owners, I always ask them to consider what is their hourly rate. Not necessarily the hourly rate of you with a camera and a client, but just forty hours a week. This is how much I'm gonna make per hour, which then helps us make better decisions. Oh, I can delegate that to someone or I can get a contractor to do this thing because I charge this and they charge this. Outside of the hiring you for an hour of shooting, do you think about it that way? Is that a good idea in your world?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 15:00

I've actually never considered that. That's actually a great thing I should have considered. I wish I did think of that. But even now, when I think about it, even from my studio visit, that definitely is something I would consider because we do have team members that work at our studio. And I have different LLCs outside of just being a photographer, where I am having to pay other people. But, also, even when it comes to that, learning how to delegate and being okay with delegating. I have editors, I have different contractors that I work with, and I do think about that if, okay, am I gonna hire an editor that's charging this amount? But if I were to do it, it's gonna use this amount of hours of my day versus I can pay this person, get my time back, and not have to worry about doing these editing or this batch editing. And I think sometimes we're so used to being the only person in our business and feeling like we have to do everything, not realizing that time is also currency. So if I can save my time by delegating and contracting out to other contractors within my business, I'm still being able to save time. I may be spending a little bit of money, but I'm still getting that time back. But also, I'm building for what I'm charging. So at the end of the day, I'm not losing any money, and I'm able to support another business who's doing something similar within the art.

Pat Miller: 16:10

Now can you give the world a public service announcement and just let your fellow photographers know it's okay to have an editor? Because there are people still walking around thinking, no. It's my art. I can't have an editor. Like, can you please tell them that this is okay?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 16:27

PSA photographers, it is okay to have an editor. Find an editor that fits your style of editing. Find an editor that's willing to communicate with you and edit the work that looks to your liking. But it is okay to save your time and to actually save your business by being able to hire someone to contract out. At the end of the day, you wanna be able to save your time, and you don't wanna be a slave to your business. You wanna be able to have time with your family, your loved ones, and do the things you actually love. So, hey, get that editor that fits you.

Pat Miller: 16:57

Alright. Let's switch gears. What are some of the common mistakes that you see photographers make when it comes to their money?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 17:03

Definitely buying things that they don't need to buy early on. Oftentimes, I meet young photographers where it's like, oh, I need to buy this newest camera. I need to buy this and I need to buy that. When I'm always telling them, if your business can't afford it, you shouldn't buy it yet. You know, Canon dropped how many cameras last year and how many lenses last year? And so many people are like, oh, I gotta get the R1 and I have to get this, I have to get that. And I'm constantly challenging them, like, before you get this, is it worth the investment? Do you need it or do you just want it? You know, even with the DJI Pocket Osmo, the 3 that came out, and everybody was getting one. And it was like, you should get one. And I'm like, I have the first one, and I haven't used it in two years. You know? And it's like, as great as the content looked, I didn't invest in it because I knew I wasn't going to utilize it. So oftentimes, don't just be so happy to buy something, and don't just make emotional buys because it looks great on Instagram or all these creators are saying it's so good. Actually, think about your business. Think about, do I really need this, and how is this going to affect my business? And, again, am I gonna get a ROI from this investment? And if not, it's not worth the buy right off hand.

Pat Miller: 18:11

That sounds an awful lot like we have McDonald's at home, though. I mean, come on. I really wanna buy the gear. It's so much fun to buy the gear.

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 18:20

Yes.

Pat Miller: 18:22

Crushing. How about software? Do you use a little bit of software, a whole bunch of software? What are you recommending?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 18:27

At first, I was using a lot of software. And even again, like, going back to the Profit First, The Profit First system is so great for me because it allowed me to understand where my money was going, especially with my operating expenses. So I was able to see, okay, this is how much I'm spending monthly for my business, but also, where can I cut down on? So I had every subscription from Capture One to Photoshop to Calendly and all these different things. And I had to realize, am I actually using every one of these online softwares? And if not, how can I actually cut this software out, or how can I find something that's gonna package it for me? So oftentimes, again, when we're starting our business, we wanna get the pixie set. We wanna get all these different things, but you also have to look at, for your overhead, do you need these things? You know? And for me, again, being able to go through my finances, being able to look at it and understand, hey, I don't really need to spend this anymore, and how often am I actually using this software? And if I'm not using it, it's okay to cancel that subscription. It's okay to end that membership if it's not working for you and if it's not working for your business.

Pat Miller: 19:32

One of the big decisions that people make, especially as they start to grow, do I need a space? Can I outgrow my home or shooting remotely? That's one of those big inflection points. How do you talk people through that?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 19:44

So for me personally, I have a rental photography studio. And before I did have my own space, I was renting a space, but I also was calculating that rental within my pricing. So at the end of the day, although I may have been shooting in another space, I put that money aside, and I actually charge my clients for that space. And I'm always telling people, it's great to have a studio, but a studio comes with so many challenges that you may not even know of. And to have those questions first before jumping right into a commercial lease. Like, we had two studios. We were able to cut back down to one. But with our second studio, we had a HVAC problem where we had to take care of it ourselves and the landlord wasn't covering it. You know? So it was like, okay, can our business afford a $9,000 HVAC repair right now? We couldn't. You know? And those these are all, like, the different challenges that people don't think about when it comes to having your own commercial space and having these all different overheads from gas and electricity and all the troubleshooting you may have to do. And if you don't have a great landlord, you just never know all those different challenges. So if you don't have to invest in that, find just different ways to make it affordable for you. At Bee Fearless Studios, we have monthly memberships–a little plug in there. But also for me, when I opened up my studio, I knew that I wanted to be a space where I could shoot, but I also wanted to be a space where others can shoot, but I also can get another stream of income. Because at the end of the day, as entrepreneurs, you wanna think about different streams of income for your businesses or different ways that your business can make more money. So for me, having a studio, I knew that I wanted to rent it out to one, have another stream of income; two, have a location for myself; but then three, also be able to serve my community that need a space to shoot as well.

Pat Miller: 21:26

Hold on. We gotta learn more about this because that's really, really clever. So you've got the place where you shoot, but then you allow to others to come in and rent your space. Do you have, like, two people that do that, 20 people that do that? Like, how does that work for you?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 21:40

So we actually have a lot of people that rent it. We rent it online. We have our online booking system where people can rent hourly from one hour to ten hours. And in our package, it includes a three-light setup, backgrounds, and all that good stuff. And we also have a studio assistant that's here to help you, especially if you don't have the knowledge of shooting in studio.

Pat Miller: 21:59

Wow. Now that is cool. And in the big picture, is that helping to offset your rent? I mean, that's a really great idea.

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 22:07

Yeah. So it definitely covers our overhead. And then with that, we also do events. We also do monthly workshops. We're trying to educate photographers, not just online, but we do editing. We do financial literacy. We do so many things to help creatives be able to be the best creative and best business person that they can be.

Pat Miller: 22:24

That's so good. And another great thing we need to call out, just because you are a photographer doesn't mean that all your money has to come from taking pictures. You can come up with other revenue streams to solve problems that your clients or maybe the community has as well. You mentioned pricing. Let's talk about margin. So if you sat down with me and here's my price list, what kind of margin are we going for, and how do you talk people through that?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 22:47

So I always tell people, I think, again, Profit First is one of those things that helped me figure out those margins and where I want to actually have them. You know, oftentimes, when we're thinking about our pricing packages as photographers, sometimes we just make emotional decisions on, oh, you know, I'm gonna just charge them $100, but we don't really think about what is our actual overhead to do this shoot. If I'm traveling to this location, if I'm bringing my equipment to this location, am I bringing a photo assistant? Actually, being able to write out what the cost of doing business for yourself is and be able to create your price packaging based on that. Oftentimes, we think that because we're just a photographer, I just need to charge this hourly rate. But we also don't realize all the ways that we can upsell our pricing packages, but also what are the things that we're actually charging for. And I think that's the biggest thing I'm always telling photographers that, hey, yes, you can do this shoot for $500, but, you know, if you bring on a photo assistant, you can pay this person and you can charge a little bit more for that. But then also you're helping build the experience of working with your clients. You know, oftentimes, you don't wanna just be a one-man band most times, you know, especially as a commercial photographer. I'm usually bringing a digital tech, photo assistants, I'm bringing my glam team. I'm bringing so many different people and so many different individuals that one, the invoice is much longer than just, oh, if you're booking a two-hour package with me. But also, again, you're thinking about your cost of doing business, how you can make sure you can pay the people what they deserve to be paid, because I'm big on paying my crew and paying my team. But then also thinking about how am I gonna pay myself, but also still have that percentage aside for to go for my profits, to go for my salary, and all those different things as well.

Pat Miller: 24:22

I want a glam team. You have a glam team? Is that like hair and makeup?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 24:26

Yes.

Pat Miller: 24:28

I want a glam team. I need a glam team. Okay, let's do the last word. Okay, so you've taught us a bunch, and it's been drinking from the fire hose. But what haven't we covered when it comes to fearless financial management?

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 24:40

Being fearless. Especially as an entrepreneur, you have to be able to be fearless and take those risk and not be afraid to seek advice. For me, I'm not where I am because of my own knowledge, but because I had amazing mentors, I asked questions. I asked the uncomfortable questions about finances. I asked the questions about business credit and all these different things to be able to get that knowledge. You know, oftentimes, we think that we humble ourselves too much, and we don't wanna ask for help, but you wanna ask for help because that's the only way that you guys can actually teach your way to get better, to be smarter, and to learn so much more. So be fearless, ask questions, find mentors, and be able to actually take your business to the nextlevel by treating your business like a business and not just a hobby.

Pat Miller: 25:26

This was such a great conversation. You helped a lot of people. Bee, thanks for coming on The Professional Photographer Podcast. I appreciate it.

Bee Trofort-Wilson: 25:31

Thank you so much, Pat.

Pat Miller: 25:33

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of The Professional Photographer Podcast. I cannot wait to see you again on our YouTube channel soon. Before you go, you gotta help us out. You gotta help us out. You gotta tell us in the comments what you liked about this episode because when you do, we know what we're doing right or we know what we're doing wrong, and it helps us book better guests and create better shows. So leave us a comment. It really helps. Also, hit like and subscribe because that just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside when you do. The other thing is if you're not yet a member of Professional Photographers of America, you're missing out. PPA offers incredible resources like equipment insurance, top-notch education, and a supportive community of photographers ready to help you succeed. It's perfect for photographers who are serious about growing their business in a sustainable and profitable way. At PPA, you belong here. Discover more about membership at ppa.com. That's ppa.com. I'm Pat Miller, Founder of the Small Business Owners Community, the publisher of the Small Business Summary newsletter, and I really enjoyed spending this time with you today. We'll see you back here again real soon.