Grow Your Studio with Google Ads: Yaneck Wasiek

Pat Miller: 00:00

I'm Pat Miller, and this is The Professional Photographer Podcast. You'd like to have some more leads. What if it was just a credit card away? That's possible if you're running Google Ads. For some reason, you may think I don't know about running ads. I wanna build my studio organically. You can do that. That's a strategy. But if you wanna grow faster and you want the machine working for you, you need to tune in to this episode with Yaneck Wasiek. He's gonna talk us through Google Ads, how they work, how to make them work better, and why they probably should be part of your marketing strategy. I would imagine if you're not running ads, you have a thousand questions. And if you are running ads, you have 2,000 questions. But Yaneck's the guy to learn from. We will talk about the big picture, what they are. We'll talk about how to make them work better, and we'll talk about once you get leads, how to follow-up with them until they book. And spoiler alert: Do you know how long he follows up with clients? He gets a lead from Google Ad. How much does he follow-up? How long? Thirteen months. You can up your game. Yaneck is standing by. We'll talk to him next. Yaneck, welcome to The Professional Photographer Podcast. How are you today?

Yaneck Wasiek: 01:22

Pretty good. Thank you so much for having me.

Pat Miller: 01:25

Now I knew today's episode was gonna be powerful because we're talking about Google Ads, and people need to learn how to run them and how to run them better. But before we even go there, I know you're gonna help people because you're wearing a KMFDM shirt.

Yaneck Wasiek: 01:39

Yeah. You know, actually, at imaging, I was wearing my other KMFDM T-shirt, so–

Pat Miller: 01:48

Very cool.

Yaneck Wasiek: 01:49

I'm so happy that we share the music taste here.

Pat Miller: 01:51

Yeah. Well, besides excellent music taste, if someone hasn't met you yet, tell them who you are and what you do.

Yaneck Wasiek: 01:56

My name is Yaneck. And, I'm sure you hear my accent as I'm originally from Poland, from Warsaw. I've lived in US for about thirty two years now, but I came when I was 20, so that makes me 52. So when I came, I was 20, I didn't speak English, so I can't get rid of my accent. So, hence, you know, I hope it'll be still okay to understand me. And, yeah, I've been a professional photographer for eighteen years. The first 10, I still had a corporate job. I was a director at a consulting company that was owned–it's called Avanade, but it's also owned by Accenture and Microsoft. So most, maybe many people, should recognize those names. So, Accenture may be less, but Accenture is kind of similar to Deloitte, which I worked for before that. So I come from a very strong business background, as you can imagine. And, yeah, I decided to quit corporate world and switch full time to photography about, it's gonna be eight or nine years now, and we were in Chicago. So I used to live in Chicago, and, like, nine years ago, we moved from Chicago to California. First to San Diego, now we are in Orange County. And we focused on different kinds of photography, but, mainly corporate, you know, more businesses where there's headshots, branding, all types of business to business kind of photography.

Pat Miller: 03:35

Well, thank you for the background, and thank you for taking the time to teach us something that more people need to learn, which is how to utilize ads to grow the studio. Let's start with this. It's so weird. For some reason, photographers and many small business owners, they take almost a pride in not running ads. Oh, I don't run ads. But with your big business background, that must not compute to you.

Yaneck Wasiek: 04:00

You know what? People are like–I don't know, there's kind of maybe the ego thing, that people say, well, now that people love me and they're gonna come regardless. But at a certain time, like, when we came to California, obviously, nobody knew us. I mean, we were relatively maybe known as photographers in Chicago, but in California, nobody heard about us, especially in the business world. So, I mean, I did focus on SEO, so search engine optimization. So, basically, how Google finds us organically. But if you ever try that one, it takes time. Takes time to see the results, but takes time for you to do it. It's very easy not to do it properly. And Google may change the algorithm any day, and you may have been–I actually talked to somebody last week and they say, you know, she told me like, you know what? I ranked so well for so many years, and suddenly Google changed some algorithm, and I'm not visible at all. You know? So, it doesn't mean that you did something wrong. It's just the way Google maybe tried to find businesses differently, and suddenly, it affects our business. So, yeah, it's okay to rank organically. There's nothing wrong with ranking organically if it brings business, yes. But do not limit your business to one channel. You know? So even if you run–everything comes from Instagram, don't just focus. I mean, it's good to make it better and make it more, but be prepared that something may go, you know, a different way and have those ads, that ads are much more controllable. You control how people find you, and you control the demand as well because the more money you're gonna put in, the more leads you're gonna get and the more bookings you're gonna get as well.

Pat Miller: 05:45

Sure. Do you think it's a fear thing that holds people back from running ads, or is it just I don't know how to use them effectively?

Yaneck Wasiek: 05:51

I think it's both. It's just a fear of wasting money, not seeing the results. And I think Google is a very interesting company. They like to make things way more difficult than it should be. Whatever product you use from Google, sometimes it's so backward. Because it looks like many times it's written by, designed by developers for developers almost. And they make things a little bit more difficult than what it should be. And Google's ads are not–it's not just a simple concept. You know, it takes some understanding to run it properly, but they make it easier to go in, put my credit card, put some ads, and let's go. Right? But it's very easy to waste money like this. You know? And that's when people get discouraged because they may run it for months or two. It's like, well, you know, that doesn't work because I didn't get any, you know, didn't bring me any business.

Pat Miller: 06:49

Now if you're already running Google Ads, just forgive us for a minute. But, Yaneck, I wanna explain like I'm five years old. What does a Google Ad look like? What are we giving Google money to do? And then we'll get into how do we know if they're working and all that stuff. But I don't wanna gloss over what a Google Ad is because it's a little bit different than some of the other platforms.

Yaneck Wasiek: 07:08

Yeah. So, you know, nowadays, Google Ads has many different ways of being presented to people. The more traditional ones is that when you go to Google and search for something, then there'll be some sponsored results right on top of your search results. And those are the main thing that we use for our business. The other ones is the display ads when you go to different websites and you see those rectangle square or whatever, like, on different pages, those are called the display ads. And then you also have, Google Ads also includes YouTube ads. So that's a totally different kind of beast. For our business, we focus on the search results ads. The display ads, we did it, but we use it only for remarketing. So if somebody comes to our website, then we'd put them, our ads on other pages so they can–it's like a reminder what they signed up for before.

Pat Miller: 08:12

And that search ad is essentially cutting in line. Like, SEO would bring you organically, but if you give Google money, it'll just put you at the top.

Yaneck Wasiek: 08:21

Exactly. So, you know, even if you rank number one, in organic search results, you're still not gonna be on top of the page. The ad actually is gonna be on the top of the page. So not only that it's a shortcut, but it's really being on top of the page. So, one thing that I do is actually, you know, I run ads for my own name. So even if somebody searches for me, I still run ads to be on top of myself.

Pat Miller: 08:49

That's funny.

Yaneck Wasiek: 08:51

So yeah. Because, you know, sometimes Instagram may come as first, sometimes Facebook, but I want my web page to be on top.

Pat Miller: 08:57

Yeah. It's brilliant. Okay, we could spend an entire YouTube episode on what buttons to click and how to do the tags, and we're gonna gloss over that for a minute. I wanna talk a little bit bigger picture because there's one side of how do we know if they're working, then the other side is how to make them work better. So let's start with how do we know if they're working? If we're running ads, what does a good job look like?

Yaneck Wasiek: 09:19

Yeah. I mean, bottom line, Google Ads are supposed to bring you money. Right? So, if you look at from the Google Ad, the end results, the end result should be more money for us for the business. So if you know that they're working, it means that we make more money. So that's the kind of one sentence answer to this. If they don't make money, even if you get a lot of clicks from the ads or you get a lot of people signing up for something, if it doesn't bring you money, then just the return on investment is bad. And, basically, that's what we should look at. When we run any marketing, any marketing campaign, the return on investment should be there, whatever the return is. Right? I mean, in our, you know, most of us as photographers, the return should be book sessions or some kind of jobs that we want to learn. You know, some people run marketing campaigns just for their pure presence and brand recognition, etcetera. But those are usually much bigger companies that you really care about just the image and just awareness versus really do the bookings.

Pat Miller: 10:27

And just to give us an idea, is it a two to one return is a good job? Is it three to one return? Like, how do you evaluate your own performance?

Yaneck Wasiek: 10:36

You know what? At the beginning, for me was even if I get my money back from the ads was good enough. You know? And I tell you why. Because that's kind of counterintuitive. It's like, okay, I'm gonna spend $500, and I'm gonna make extra $500. You know? So, basically, I'm at net zero. It doesn't sound good, but if you're starting and you want to have more people in front of your camera, that's a great way to do it. Because the people that you have in front of the camera, that's your new network. Right? And you can work with them to get you more business because if you do an awesome job, they're gonna tell their friends or colleagues, etcetera, to bring you more business. So that's at the minimum. Like, don't lose money. Make at least the money that you invested. Two x, 10 x, you know, the more x you have, if you have 10 x on the return, it's fantastic. You know? I'm usually happy if I make 3 to 4 x on my spend. So if I spend $1000 dollar ads, if I get $4,000 in return, I'm happy with that.

Pat Miller: 11:41

I love the x's. Bring me all the x's. Exactly, 3 x, 4 x. X's are great.

Yaneck Wasiek: 11:46

Yeah.

Pat Miller: 11:47

When you get an ad that's at least breaking even or it's doing 2 or 3 x, how much should we pour on Google? Like, how much money should we spend?

Yaneck Wasiek: 11:54

I actually had a conversation with my mentoring group earlier today. If something is good, do more of it and better. So, if you spend $500 and it gives you $1500, then you know if you're gonna spend, $1000 or $2,000, it's gonna bring you money. Obviously, at some point, it's gonna stagnate a little bit more. You cannot just put $100,000, and it's gonna give you a million. You know? That's doesn't work like this. But basically, you can start spending more money on the ads and then get the return back. And then at some point, it's gonna–once it's flattened, you know that this is kind of the limit where you can be. You know? But if something works well, and that's what usually people realize. If something works well and gives you money, they don't feel better about spending more on Google Ads. Right? You know what? If I spend between $2,000 and $2500 per month on Google Ads. And to some people, it's like, when they look at me, it's like, that's crazy. Why are you spending so much money on Google Ads? I said, because it brings me business.

Pat Miller: 12:57

Right.

Yaneck Wasiek: 12:57

Why wouldn't I? You know? So but, like, I tell people, like, to start, you can spend maybe $400 - $600 per month on Google Ads and then let Google learn everything, what you do, and then bring–and once you tweak it and make it better, then you can start increasing the budget per month.

Pat Miller: 13:15

We start running a Google Ad. We're at the top of the search results for headshots, let's say. They're starting to work, but they're not as efficient as they could be. So let's turn our attention to the landing page, where that link goes.

Yaneck Wasiek: 13:29

Yeah.You know what? I'm glad that you mentioned it because one of the mistakes that I see when people are running Google Ads or Facebook ads or Instagram, whatever, you know, as photographers, we bring them to a home page before even about talking about landing pages. Right? If somebody clicked on your ads, it means that you pay for it. Right? Whatever the fee is, whether it's $3, $5, $7, you already paid for that person to come to your page or to your website. If you take them to your home page, they are distracted by everything. They're distracted by different menus. They're distracted by different photos and let's say you're a headshot photographer. Oh, you do video too? Oh, let me find out about video. It's like, you know, then they can navigate through your website, and then somebody calls them from the office, "oh, we need to do this." And, poof, they're gone. Right? They're not on your website anymore. And they forgot about what they were doing. So, from the clicks taking to your homepage or to a page that is not really optimized for Google Ads is basically like wasting money. Right? Because you spent the money on the click, but you didn't get anything back in return. The chances for that person to come back and book anything or provide you their information is minimal. Right? So that's where it comes the term CRO or conversion rate optimization. And that's the rate of how many people visit your page and then how many people actually take action on your page. Right? So landing pages are basically pages, individual pages that are optimized for specific ads that you run. So let's say if you are, let's say, a family photo photographer, you can have a separate page just for a family photographer. Let's say you're running four mini sessions. You should have a landing page just for four mini sessions. Right? And the only thing you can do is about four mini sessions to some special. Right? If you're a headshot photographer, you can have a separate landing page for individual sessions, or you can have separate page for team headshots because of that two different ads and two different kind of actions that you want people to take. So landing pages are basically pages, it could be on your website or could be on a different platform, but the main thing, they're optimized to have only one action item, nothing else, no menus, the logo should not be clickable. And basically, you want the visitor on that page to take only one step. And whatever the call to action is, but that's the only thing they can do on that page.

Pat Miller: 16:14

So it's clear with only one thing to do, but you're not bouncing them only to a calendar to book their session. You have to tell the story a little bit to get them to do it.

Yaneck Wasiek: 16:24

Yes. And you know what? If you were at my Imaging class, I went actually through the whole structure of what the landing page should be. And if anybody's interested, maybe we can put in the notes of the podcast where to get the presentation from Imaging. And there's actually a whole presentation, a whole PowerPoint about which section to have on your landing page. From the hero section to the problem definition, how you can help them, the process that you have some social proof on your landing page. But, yeah, basically, it should be the whole story. So it should be a text combined with images. Don't just put portfolio. Don't just tell them how great you are. It's focused on them versus you. But then to answer your question, yeah, when somebody comes from the ad, we shouldn't just ask them right away, just book a session with us. Because they don't know us. They don't trust us. Why would they put the money on the table to somebody that they met for the first time? We just don't do it in real life. Why would they do it on the website? And, so, I think the first one is like, the first item is what's called the lead magnet. So you have to give them a reason to provide you their information. Right? So we don't get any money commitment on the landing page. You know? It's more about getting information. Whether you provide them certain guide or additional book or documents, or you can give them a special. Right? There are many different ways that you can have the lead magnet define, depending on the genre of photography that you do. Google Ads usually is some kind of deal, make a big–a good way to convert on those landing pages, or extremely good stuff. You know, what I said is like, if somebody else charges for it, provide it for free, and then you have a good lead magnet. You know? Because the lead magnet has to have a real good value to the visitor. Not just like pseudo value. It's not like pretend to have value. No, It has to have a real value for them to really be willing to submit the information.

Pat Miller: 18:36

And that would tickle the thought process of, well, I can't give that away for free. That means you're probably doing a good lead magnet, that you're giving value so tangible that someone would want it and wanna digest that information.

Yaneck Wasiek: 18:50

Yeah. And then you know what? This thing that if you give something for free, you give something, people feel the reciprocation is a great force. People, they feel internally, like when we feel like, okay, we got something good, you know? We start to trust that person, and then we're willing to spend money with that person.

Pat Miller: 19:11

Talking about the items that need to be on the page, how important is Well, first of all, define it, but how important is social proof?

Yaneck Wasiek: 19:18

Social proof is extremely important, and it's the social proof on your landing page–actually, even if we go back, on my Google Ads, I actually say how many five star reviews I have already. So that's one social proof. I include in my ads how many people I photograph per year. And I don't even say I photograph, let's say, we photograph over 6,000 people every year. I don't say I photograph 6,000 people every year. I say we make 6,000 people photogenic every year. You know, as a social proof that we actually made them, because most people, you know, when we come for a headshot, it's like, "I'm not photogenic." You know? That I mean, we all heard it. Right? When we photograph people, it's like, "I'm not photogenic." You know? It's like, "I hate my photos." Right? So those are, even in the ads, I provide the social proof that we help other people. Okay? And then, on the landing page, we provide the social proof throughout the page. We don't just put one section and then all the reviews, but we put the reviews and testimonials throughout. And then the social proof is also the before and after transformation of the headshots that we do. So, there's multiple faces of social proof that we can have on the landing page. Because the landing page beside giving value, it has to also build the first level of trust, right? That you're an expert in whatever we do as photographers.

Pat Miller: 20:51

We run the ads. We get some clicks. We get the clicks to a really good landing page. They give us their email. They get the lead magnet. Now let's talk about what happens after that. How do we communicate with a lead once we have their email address?

Yaneck Wasiek: 21:05

Yeah. So, that's a great question because I think if we don't do the book now, we know that people don't book right away. So we receive the lead. And then what do we do with that? Right? You know? So, the few key things that we should be doing. One is the speed. The speed is important, that we need to reach out to that lead as fast as we can. Right? Now how do we reach to that lead? We can reach out through email. We can call them, and we can text them. Right? Different people, and really, there's no rule, some people prefer emails, some people prefer text messages, and some people prefer phone calls. Personally, my preferred way of communication are emails. But we were on the call earlier today with my crew, and then somebody else is like, "Oh, I'm completely the opposite. I just love to talk with people on the phone." And I'm pretty sure a lot of people, they just love text messages. Right? So even though my phone conversation is my least favorite, I still call every lead that I receive. I call them, I send them an email, and I send them a text message. And the email and text messages are actually, it's a whole chain of emails and text messages. And we can talk about it later. But we have to call fast or email fast and do all three methods or three channels because we don't know what is the preferred method of the communication for the person that would just reach out to us. So even majority of people, they say they like text messages. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't call them. We should give them the option and see what works the best for them.

Pat Miller: 22:49

Let's go through real quick just the broad strokes of that follow-up. So what does that follow-up sequence look like?

Yaneck Wasiek: 22:56

Yeah. So the emails are combined with text messages. So I send that email first, then I send a text message. Then after the next day, I send an email and two days later, I send a text message. But basically, we call, like, an email–I think they call it, like, a drip campaign. Right? Let's say my special is valid for seven days. So the first four days, I send an email every day, and I send them a text message every other day. And then toward the week, when the special is over, I send them the last two days again, email reminders and text reminders that the special is over. Okay? But not every email and every text is about selling. I mean, the second email is actually a more deeper look into the social proof. The third email is about us and a lot on the personal side, who we are. And then we start to give them tips about headshots. You know, we give them a whole guide. We give them how to even pick a photographer even if they don't go with us, whether location is better or not, what to wear, what kind of clothes to wear. So we give them a lot of tips throughout. And our sequence, I think it's, right now, thirteen months long.

Yaneck Wasiek: 24:16

Wow.

Pat Miller: 24:17

Yes. What? Wait, you're following up with a lead for thirteen months if they haven't been booked?

Yaneck Wasiek: 24:21

Yes.

Pat Miller: 24:22

And for someone that's doubtful, six months later, there still are people that convert, isn't there?

Yaneck Wasiek: 24:28

Oh, yes. I learned a few weeks ago, this kind of thought, diminishing return doesn't mean that there's no return. There's still return.

Pat Miller: 24:44

That's so great.

Yaneck Wasiek: 24:46

Just because it's less, I still make money. So the whole point is to make it nice and automated, and basically just keep sending this automatically so it's on autopilot. And then, when somebody responds, then you do it manually. But yeah, so emails and text messages, they go through my system. So I have a special, and then after, I think, four months, I have a slightly deeper special. And then, so we'll see whether they buy this. Okay? Some people do buy it. Some people don't. And then, the last email, which is like the, I think, the fourteen months, I send them, okay, this is it. I don't have any more information for you. Those are all the tips. Saying goodbye. You know? This is the last chance if you want. And then believe it. This is so true. On the last email, people still book. I don't know. I still want to book it. So even after fourteen months, the people still book it.

Pat Miller: 25:43

That's fantastic. Thank you for reassuring us that that happens.

Yaneck Wasiek: 25:47

Oh, yes. Absolutely.

Pat Miller: 25:49

Let's also get a report on this. So what does a good job look like as far as conversions from leads to paid business? How do you gauge that?

Yaneck Wasiek: 25:59

The landing page conversion, so let's talk about this, the conversion rate optimization. That should be, I would say, a very good one should be between 10% and 15%. You know, if you're doing a 20% to 30%, it's very good. Okay? But 10% and 15% should be like a very good rate of conversion. Now the leads to book a client, we are running, you know, we were much lower right now, but I'm still working on it. But we had 40% on converting the leads to book sessions. And so that's where we're focusing a lot because the extra converted lead doesn't cost me anything, but it makes me more money. Right? So that's what we're focusing on a lot. Yeah.

Pat Miller: 26:50

This could have been a really long interview, but we wanted to do an overview on Google Ads because not everybody's running them, and it sounds like everybody should. What haven't we covered about Google Ads that you wanna get into this conversation?

Yaneck Wasiek: 27:01

Yeah. So, in the past, Google used–when we run Google Ads, we basically define what search terms we want to target, what are the things that people search for. Let's say we want to target, I don't know, professional headshots in New York, let's say. So in the past, there were three types of keyword matching. It was exact match, phrase match, and broad match. Right? The exact match is basically whatever you entered; if you say, professional headshots New York, your ads will be displayed or even considered only for those keywords, for that phrase. You know? It's not gonna be anything extra. Now the phrase match is that you're gonna match, you know, your ads will match anytime a part, that phrase that you entered will be part of that broader search. Okay? So if you somebody say searches best professional headshots New York City, you'll still match. Right? On the exact match, you will not. And then the broad match was kind of like free fall. You know? Like, I mean, freestyle. Right? You know? Whatever was written, Google thought it was related, they'll put it. Right? So even they will say how to take headshots in New York, your ads will post even though, really, this is not a target audience that we want to reach. Because if somebody says how to take headshots, either it's a do-it-yourself person that doesn't want to spend money on a photographer or there's another photographer that wants to learn how to do headshots. Right? So that's why those are not worth the money. Now those things changed, probably, like, '21 or '22. So, a couple of years ago, but even if you do direct, I mean, exact match for your keywords, Google still considers what is the intent of the search versus just a really exact match of the phrase that you do. So that has changed. So that the exact campaigns, that doesn't, you know, you have to understand that the search reach will be broader. Now the broad match became so much smarter now because there's AI behind it and all this stuff. So what we recommend now is that when you start campaigns, you actually use broad keywords and do it longer. Right? So, not just two words, but use, like, three or four words. So it should be like best headshot photographer in New York City would be a good longer tail keywords on the broad term to use in Google Ads. So use few of these, like three to four, then have one exact phrase in that group, and then monitor it. For the first week, you do it every day, and you monitor it. What are the actual keywords or phrases of the search term that people use that match your ad? Because you don't want to waste money, right? So you have to monitor. And whatever didn't work, whatever didn't make sense, you just put as a negative keywords. So basically, you got to exclude from your ads. And let Google learn. And what's important for Google to learn, you have to set up the conversions properly in Google Ads. Because if you don't set up your conversions to Google Ads, Google will not know what is a successful ad. You know? Because some people just optimize for clicks, but clicks is meaningless if you don't convert. So you have to set up in Google Ads what is a conversion. That's the most technical part of the whole Google setup. That's the most technical, that's what we help the people the most, actually, to set up the conversions. Because once you set up the conversions, then you say, okay, we want to optimize for these conversions for these ads, and then we need to provide those conversions to Google in order to learn. Right? You cannot just limit the budget to too little for Google not to have any conversions. Because if you have a one conversion a week or a month, Google will never learn what really works for you. So you have to monitor, and then sometimes you have to spend a little bit more or a little bit less. If you have a lot of conversions, you don't have to spend that much money. But if you don't have enough conversions, either check whether your ads are running properly or the ads are attractive enough or your landing page is attractive enough, but you have to have those conversions. Or if you think everything is perfect, then increase the budget a little bit more because you're not spending enough money for Google to learn from your ads.

Pat Miller: 31:34

So you've definitely made the case. There are people that are watching that are thinking, oh, my gosh, Yaneck, teach me. Tell us about the digital system that you offer.

Yaneck Wasiek: 31:42

Yes. So, one thing, they can join my free Facebook group. So that's totally free. They can ask questions there. We have, I think, 900 people already in my group. So, join us. It's Grow Your Photography Business w/ Yaneck on Facebook, you can search for it, and we can add the link on the description of the video. And then I do mentoring as well. I can set up ads for some people, but then I only can help two people per month. So I already have a waiting list for the next few months who I can help. And then, basically, I set up everything for those people. And then they they take over, and they just manage their own ads. You know? So, basically, the initial step is so important. You know? Because once the Google Ads are run, it's just monitoring. Or they can join my WASIO Digital platform, and that's wasiodigital.com. And then one of the option is we have monthly calls. Like, earlier today, I have a monthly mentoring coach, and we talk about business with the platform, how to convert better. But there's also an option with, like, one on one mentoring with me. So, whatever comfort level you have, how much time you want to spend, I can help you, but my time is obviously limited. So, the one on one mentoring is only one person per geolocation. So some geolocation is already taken because I don't want all the people that I mentor to compete with each other.

Pat Miller: 33:09

So if you're sitting there now and you're thinking, wait a minute. I'm not growing as fast as I'd like. More leads are literally a credit card away. Yaneck, thanks so much for coming on The Professional Photographer Podcast. I appreciate it. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of The Professional Photographer Podcast. I'm already excited to get you our next episode, so make sure you hit subscribe and ding, it'll show up automatically. Also, if you liked the episode, can you give us one of those? Like, the thing, the thumbs up, that's really important, and so are comments. Comments let us know that we're doing a good job for you. So if you learned something today from Yaneck, give us a thumbs up so we know what's resonating with you with a comment. Okay. If you're not yet a member of PPA, Professional Photographers of America, really? Like, really? Come on. PPA has incredible resources for you if you're serious about growing your business. We're talking about equipment insurance, top-notch education, a supportive community of photographers ready to help you succeed. It's perfect for a photographer just like you that's ready to go places in 2025. If you wanna learn more, visit ppa.com. That's ppa.com. I'm Pat Miller, founder of the Small Business Owners Community and the publisher of the Small Business Summary newsletter and your host. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you right here next time. Take care.