Turn One Job into 10: Corporate Photography Secrets with Emily McClure

Pat Miller: 00:00

I'm Pat Miller, and this is The Professional Photographer podcast. Corporate clients are great, wouldn't you agree? High volume work, lots of money. They come back to you once a year for a big paycheck. Who wouldn't want more of them? But how do we get more of them? What if it was as simple as taking care of the ones you have? Today's guest, Emily McClure, is going to tell us about how to take care of your corporate clients and how to build relationships so they see you as someone to know, like, and trust. Corporate clients can be a little bit different than family sessions or senior sessions or whatever it might be. So how do we go about giving them what they need? How do we solve problems when things go wrong? How do we handle some of their weird requests? She's going to go through everything in today's interview. So if you love corporate clients and you want more of them, let's learn how to take care of them and build those crucial relationships. We'll talk with Emily next. Emily, welcome to The Professional Photographer Podcast. How are you?

Emily McClure: 01:08

I'm doing great. How are you? Pat, thank you for having me.

Pat Miller: 01:11

I'm great. I'm excited that you're here, and we have a very important topic to get to, but people need to know that you're kind of a big deal, if they haven't met you yet. Tell us who you are and what you do.

Emily McClure: 01:20

My name's Emily McClure, and I'm the owner of EM Corporate. I'm based out of Dallas, Texas. I'm a headshot photographer as well as any corporate collateral or content that they would need for a brand?

Pat Miller: 01:32

Yeah, for a brand. And doing corporate work. I'm excited that we get to talk about relationships because maybe that's not the first word that comes to mind when you think about corporate headshot photography. How do you think about relationships in the big picture?

Emily McClure: 01:46

Well, I'm a long game person. Some people are short game. I've realized in this industry and any industry, they want to know what can you do for me right now? And I'm more of a what can we do for each other over the long haul? And that can infer a lot of things, actually.

Pat Miller: 02:03

Is that the type of thing that you developed over time or that came to you instinctively?

Emily McClure: 02:08

Probably a little bit of both. When you realize something's working well, you continue to do it. But by nature, I enjoy relationships and people. So establishing those things in place in my business, it took me a minute to realize they weren't like everybody else. Right? I thought everybody did what I did, and people would say, how do you get clients? People ask me that all the time. And I got to thinking, that's a thing for people. They have a hard time with that. So, yeah, I wanted to talk about it today.

Pat Miller: 02:39

And taking care of the people that we have is such a simple thing to do. A critic may look at your work and say, wait a minute. Building relationships with corporate employees. That doesn't make any sense because they turn over so quickly. But you've got an interesting counter to that.

Emily McClure: 02:54

Well, they take you wherever they go.

Pat Miller: 02:59

Ah.

Emily McClure: 02:59

Yeah. Have you ever been in a party or a meeting and you're looking at someone right in their eye and then somebody more interesting or different shows and their eyes move away from you?

Pat Miller: 03:09

Yes, yes. It drives me crazy.

Emily McClure: 03:11

It's really annoying as an adult that I can't retain your attention. That's how people feel when they're with you and you are not focused on them for whatever reason. It doesn't matter. So I try to really be aware of who's in front of me. So when people ask me, how do you get your clients? I say like this, literally with my hands, take care of the person in front of you. They laugh at me every time. And I think it's not that hard, but it is. You have to pay attention to who's standing right in front of you and what do they need from you and how can you serve them best. You have to read the room, have some social cues. Their anxiety is coming from a place. Can you take a second to address it? Are you focused on what your camera settings are and unsure of your lighting? And all in your own head, unable to relate to that person.

Pat Miller: 04:02

And when you're working with someone, especially in a corporate setting, you share that as you build a relationship with someone. It's not about getting more corporations. It's that the scope may grow. Like this one company may have you shoot an extra department, and that's what you've experienced.

Emily McClure: 04:18

Great. Yes, absolutely. Headshots are kind of a gateway drug to other collateral that a company might need.

Pat Miller: 04:26

Sorry, that's funny. That's true. I believe you, but that's funny.

Emily McClure: 04:29

Yeah, it's the start. It's the foundation. If you do that well, they'll trust you to do other content, and you could source it for them, which is also being a resource to them, and that's what you want to be. It's not just about those badge photos or LinkedIn headshot. That's the start and a lot of people stop there, and that's unfortunate. But enable to boost revenue and bump those invoices up into the numbers that you're going to want, you have to be capable of doing a few other things. Because once you're on site, they might say–well, this doesn't happen anymore because I'm better at communicating–but they might say, can you do a group photo? Well, they know that that's going to cost more. Do you know how much that's going to cost? Do you have to talk to them? Have we established some boundaries of deliverables? All of that. Can you shoot a group shot? Can you walk up to the CFO and say, "You have a hair right here, we're going to pluck it. Your tie is off center." Can you coach other people in leadership? Because they're expecting you to do that.

Pat Miller: 05:32

And when you do that, you get to the holy grail of building relationships, which is people. They want people and they hire people that they know, like and trust. And what you're talking about is, hey, you've got broccoli in your teeth or your tie isn't straight. That's a trust building exercise. So, in general, taking care of new clients and getting new clients is exhibiting that you're someone that they should know and they should like, and they can trust. So how, how do we go about doing that?

Emily McClure: 06:01

Well, which part do you want to start with?

Pat Miller: 06:03

You start where you'd like to start because know, like, and trust is such a common phrase. What about the knowing us part? Like, how do we let people in enough to know who we are and what we stand for?

Emily McClure: 06:14

Sure, many creatives stand on their work alone, and it's not enough anymore. They want to hire a person. They want to know how you work, what your personality's like. How are you going to treat the CFO and the janitor? Like how do you treat people? That's important. And the way you show that is by letting them see you. That could be vlogs. We have no reason not to let people see us now. With social media and all the platforms that allow us to interface with people we've never met before, that's how you start showing. I had a VP come up to me at a conference last summer and she said, "I really enjoy following you on LinkedIn". It caught me off guard because she's never commented, liked, shared, nothing. She said, "You're great." I said, "I appreciate that, thank you." But in my mind, I thought, guess who's letting them see and know me, regardless of their reply. It matters.

Pat Miller: 07:13

But knowing you and not just knowing your work. So when you're creating content and putting it out, how are you building the know and the like part by talking about what you and your life is, rather than I took this beautiful picture of another person? So how do you get your head around that?

Emily McClure: 07:31

That's fair. So a lot of my posts will be relationship-focused. So this is so and so. And I did this for him today, and this is why he's amazing. Because most of my clients are really exceptional people, and it's easy to do, but a lot of people say, here's the photo, and they stop right there. They don't show a selfie with the client. They don't show, like, look at his amazing suit. They're not willing to go into that relationship vein because they don't see the value or they're scared. So I just start talking about my clients. It's not the Emily Show, because nobody would like that. We get tired of people who just look at themselves, right? Or talk about themselves. It's the this is this person show. And I'll tell the people when we're taking a selfie, okay, you look cute. Get yourself looking cute. And they'll stand there. And then I go in and look like a crazy person like, hey. Because it's about them. And that's how I want someone to feel when they come to me. It's about you. So that's the 'know' part.

Pat Miller: 08:31

But even that little bit of injecting yourself into the selfie with them is enough to be a part of, look at me doing good for a client, rather than just here's the client, and you can at least introduce yourself that way, which is great. What about before we get the gig and we want to build some trust? Is there anything that comes to mind as far as creating content or publicizing the studio that might build the trust factor?

Emily McClure: 08:57

The trust is the key that gets you into a lot of doors, and you just don't realize it at the time. So how I do that is if you want to know how I work, that shouldn't be confusing to you. The layer of Instagram for me isn't about a bunch of followers. If a company's looking at hiring person A and person B, and they can go find me and see how I–that's the differential. It's that simple. Those decisions are made. People think decisions are made by the President. They're not. They're made by HR. And those people are looking for people who will give their people an experience, take care of the client, and that starts to build trust. Like, she behaved this way in this situation and she's going to behave this way with our people, and that matters. And then hopefully, they like it. Right?

Pat Miller: 09:44

Yeah. And this isn't necessarily just a marketing conversation because there are experts there. And I'm sure you could teach an entire class on that. But I want to move that off to the side for a second.

Emily McClure: 09:53

Okay, sure.

Pat Miller: 09:53

Because I want to talk about you say the best way to get clients is to take care of the clients that we have. And you're a former college athlete, and you build the trust with your clients by preparing for your sessions like a big game. So walk us through that because that's fascinating to me. And how does that come to life as you get ready for a session?

Emily McClure: 10:16

Sure. Yeah. As a college athlete, there's a lot of prep that goes into before a game that nobody ever sees. The same is true of my industry. The work that happens before the session, nobody's ever aware of. They have no idea how much time and energy, awareness it takes to get ready to be present with that person. So not only is it, you know, my checklist for every setup that I have. If they want this light setup, I have a checklist. I do not pride myself in thinking I will remember everything because 10 years ago, I showed up to a session without my camera body.

Pat Miller: 10:50

Oops.

Emily McClure: 10:53

And as I tell my kids, sometimes you do things one time, sometimes you only do it once because you learn from it, hopefully. So checklists for everything. I pack my car the night before, so I'm not like in my blazer in my nice outfit, lugging my gear. My gas tank is full. It's those simple things so that I'm not delayed. I'm checking traffic to see the destination. And if I need to leave earlier, I always arrive places early. I don't like to be rushed.

Pat Miller: 11:20

Do you have a morning routine that puts you into game day mode?

Emily McClure: 11:24

Yes. Do you want to hear about it?

Pat Miller: 11:25

What's that? Yeah, I do want to hear about it.

Emily McClure: 11:29

Okay. Game day mode is–It has gotten better as I've learned that it's important and valuable. And yeah, I wasn't always this way. And I've learned because when you get to the end of a day and you're exhausted, that's a red flag; something you're not taking care of yourself best. So for me now, I like to go for a walk in the morning, if able. And then I usually cold plunge, which clears my mind and is a mental reset for me. It's really interesting. And don't knock it till you try it, I guess. And then I try to drink protein or eat protein in the morning so that I'm not at noon really tired and dragging. So what you put in your body and how you take care of it. I need to be weightlifting and a couple of other things, but it's a start.

Pat Miller: 12:15

We got to talk about cold plunge, though. Like, I've heard about the cold plunge. No, it's just fascinating to me because some of the highest performers that I see on Twitter and some of the experts in the fields, it's something that comes up way more often with them than a bunch of losers that I know they never cold plunge. Like, cold plunge only seems to be done by the people that really have their act together. So how does one arrive at jumping into freezing cold water in the morning? Because it doesn't sound appealing. So how did you start doing it?

Emily McClure: 12:43

Oh, it's terrible. It's terrible. The first 45 seconds is terrible. But my husband did a ton of research regarding cold plunge, so we got a chest freezer. Yep, in my backyard with water and a filter. He sealed it because he's amazing. And I hop in there for my goal is four minutes, and it's amazing.

Pat Miller: 13:02

Four minutes? What?

Emily McClure: 13:05

Just up to my waist, yeah. You need to try it. You've never cold plunged?

Pat Miller: 13:09

No. I've never cold plunged. Like, come on. Really?

Emily McClure: 13:16

Yes.

Pat Miller: 13:17

And what does it do for you? Wakes you up, reduces inflammation, clears your mind? Like, what does it do?

Emily McClure: 13:23

It's a mental reset for me. And then the productivity of the next hour is pretty impressive as well, because it puts your body in fight or flight. And then you are like, let's get stuff done.

Pat Miller: 13:35

That is absolutely wild. And I'm not knocking it before I try it. And I didn't mean to derail the podcast, but I've always wanted to ask someone, like, what's the deal with that?

Emily McClure: 13:47

It's great.

Pat Miller: 13:48

Okay, well, it's on the list. I will cold plunge and report back, and maybe the podcast will have double the downloads after I cold plunge.

Emily McClure: 13:55

Okay, I would love to see that, actually.

Pat Miller: 13:59

Ooh, God. I just got a chill just thinking about it. Okay, let's move on to systems. So we get to the session on time. We are mentally and physically prepared, but our interaction with our clients and delivering the product relies on really great systems. So talk to us about the systems that people can trust and that are easy for them to navigate.

Emily McClure: 14:19

Okay, so I have a CRM, 17Hats that navigates all the paperwork for me. So that is not something I'm thinking about. Has a client received this information or aware of this? They have it. If you're getting the same questions again and again, that's a red flag to you. That's your job to answer those questions. Clients should not be wondering 48 hours out of a session these simple things. Like if they're doing that, that's on us. We need to do better. So my systems are in place depending on the type of session and where it's located, that they're getting what they need, when they need it. Kind of a need to know basis. You have to think through what's a client going to need to know three days out. They don't want to know it two weeks out. Plan that out. That includes a what to wear guide, a color board, things we don't do. The simple, will everybody read it? No, the ones that want to have it. And that's the goal, right? To get the work, the content that the people need if they wanted. And it establishes me as credible. I'm the expert in the room. I need to behave like that from start to finish. And a lot of people think it's right in the session only. That's false. So from the get go, from the reply time to an email, do I answer my phone? Yes. Do you know how many people say, I've called three people. they won't pick up, they won't return my calls. So when you tell me you can't get work, let me check your phone, let me see your inbox. Like, what's going on? Are you a business owner? But processes in place is from start to finish. I mean I could walk you through each step, but it's not that hard. Just figure out what your clients need to know and make sure that they get it with.

Pat Miller: 16:05

Know, like, and trust as the outcome that we're seeking, and our expertise being the tool that showcases our trust. Some photographers let the clients drive. What they need, what they want, can we do it this way? What if we did this and some photographers are, nope, this is the way we do it because I'm the expert. If that's a scale, where do you find yourself landing to make sure that you are still in charge and giving them what they need even if they don't know what they need?

Emily McClure: 16:35

So it's like walking on a balance beam. And if you've ever watched an Olympic athlete, it's four inches wide. You're trying to do a real good job of making sure you stay balanced. Right? You are the expert, but they're the one paying your invoice. So who's talking? Those conversations are not happening at the session. I offer a discovery call. We're going to walk through each step, and that's when I ask questions. Have you considered group photos, a C-suite photo, interiors, exteriors, custom stock photos. If you start exploring what they actually need. Like I went on your Google, I don't see an exterior photo. Would you like one just for the Google? People can find you easier. Yes. I went to a ribbon cutting for a new doctor's office. Getting to the doctor's office was not simple. And I had about 20 minutes before the providers arrived. And I said, would you like for me to go shoot a step by step to get up here? She said, what do you mean? I said, from when I enter the parking lot to the front of this office, would you like a step? Then your patients can find you easier with those photos. And she said, I never thought about that. It's extremely difficult to find this place. People tell us they're having a hard time–just the ones attending the ribbon cutting. So I walked through, shot it, done. Like, that's me thinking ahead for the client. What do you need? I know what you need. And now I have the courage to tell you. Now, if you take it or not, that's fine. But if I didn't offer, it would never happen, right?

Pat Miller: 18:10

So you can't throw out the courage word without exploring that a little bit more because you are really upselling by doing what you just described. Hey, what about this? What about that? What about that? You're growing the ticket, which is great. But if you don't have the courage and confidence to know that you can deliver what you're talking about, but also the fact that they need it and you have the guts to ask for it, how do you get your game day face on to be that confident and courageous, to, you know, not push them, but encourage them to engage more with you?

Emily McClure: 18:43

Well, I don't see it as upselling. I see it as offering a resource, and that's the differential. So they may say no to every one. And I don't ask six–I don't ask all those at the same time. In that first call. M goal if I get in the room for headshots is a group photo. And she's like, "No, we don't need that right now." Great. But guess who knows that I do group photos? They do, right. "Oh, we don't need exteriors." But guess who knows I do that? Yeah, she does. Right? So my goal isn't necessarily right then, but it's to serve the client better. They don't know what they need. You know, and the way you do that on an invoice is you'll talk about it and they'll say, "Oh, that's interesting. Can I have the option?" Because they're not usually the decision-makers. Sometimes they are depending on the person, depending, but I added as an add-on so they can just, like, choose your own adventure. They can choose this one, and they can choose this, and then they can see the total and make those decisions for themselves.

Pat Miller: 19:44

Things happen when you're on a shoot. Things that don't go right. Problems pop up, and you want to be in control and have the confidence that the session's going great and don't worry about it. But when a problem comes up, how do you think about handling it so the client knows that you've got it under control?

Emily McClure: 20:02

Your point of contact is your BFF. So people will say, could we, ABC? And you're like, let me talk to Kristy about that. Could we? You know, you need to have her approval. And that happened at a session, and I should have gone to her and say, hey, because I had someone that was not happy. He walked in the room. I had done eight headshots. And he's like, "We're gonna need–no, no." He's like, "How fast can you do this?" That's what he said. And I said, "I can go quicker." Because I had deliverables I had to meet two photos per person facing different. That was an answer for him. And then it seemed like five minutes later, it probably was. He came in and he said, "We're gonna need to go". We have a meeting. And I need to be–like he starts ranting. I was like, who are you? Like, where did you come from? Well, he was the sales manager for the cohort that I had just–was photographing at the time. And instead of going to the girl that was near my point of contact, I said, sir, how many more do you have in your team? And he said, four. And I said, I'll get it done right now. So I start clipping through, which I'm capable. I think there were six more, actually. And they left, and my point of contact came in, and she said, "Are you okay?" And I said, I'm not actually. And she said, "Would you like a break?" And I said, yes. Now am I going to tell her everything there? No. But what I learned was she's the one that I needed to go. Like, I'm not. Hey, nice to meet you. My name's Emily. And he would have said, "I'm so and so." Could you go get Kristy for me? We need to have a quick discussion about this. And she's the one that runs interference, not me. So that's why your point of contact is your best friend. And later she said, she just looked me in the eye and she said, "Don't listen to him." I was like, well, I kind of have to because he's the one hollering at me. And I learned that day, point of contact, they're the ones that run, not me. I'm there to do my job.

Pat Miller: 22:03

And with good emotions and bad emotions. Good emotions being I have this vision for the shot, and we're going to do it this way, and maybe you get your photographer pants on, and you're really going to lean into it. Or bad emotions being "Sales manager, calm down." Let me–like, either way, adding a bunch of emotion into the daily shoot, that's not good.

Emily McClure: 22:22

No, it's not. It's not good. And you try to be as emotionless as possible because the client isn't looking for emotion. They're looking for resources and solutions. That's the difference. When I did family work and wedding work, lots of emotion, right? And you try to run.You try to do the best you can. Corporate works a little different. I'm not using exclamation points in my emails. I'm not using feeling words. And in person, if they come to me with a problem, my job is to offer a solution. So, sometimes that means take a breath, think about what she just said or he said. What could I do? What's on my capabilities and then offer the solution. Now, if you have somebody that's like an uncle with a great camera in the room who has an idea, does that happen still in corporate work? They'll say, hey, what about if we duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh? I'll say, absolutely. Like, let me get done what I think might be best, and then I'm happy to accommodate, and you shoot it. And client suggestions used to scare me when I first started because I thought it was like a jilt on me or my capabilities. Usually it's not. Usually it's just a suggestion and an idea. Take it or leave it. So, it's interesting.

Pat Miller: 23:37

Sometimes, they just want to be heard, right? Oh, I heard it, and I shot it. And, oh, we deleted it because it was terrible. But I did the thing that you wanted, you know, no problem.

Emily McClure: 23:45

Right. And it depends on who's talking to you. So if the President says, like, hey, can I get a photo of me by the Christmas tree? Absolutely. Take your photo by the Christmas tree. I wasn't planning on it. I don't have the lights for it. Get it done. Right?

Pat Miller: 23:57

Yeah.

Emily McClure: 23:58

There's things that happen. You just have to pivot, but they're not expecting it to be free.

Pat Miller: 24:03

It's a good reminder about the emotions. One thing that you do recommend or you do, you add a little emotion after the shoot, you send thank you notes. Can you tell us about that?

Emily McClure: 24:14

Oh, yeah, I do. I didn't think about that as an emotional connection, though.

Pat Miller: 24:18

Oh, I think so. I think it's very personal.

Emily McClure: 24:20

Oh, personal. That's true. I don't think about as emotional. I do. I send thank you notes. And I went to buy some, and they were all terrible. They were script font and gold embossed and flowers. And I thought, what does a C-suite Marketing Director, what kind of content would they receive and appreciate? Right? So I forced myself to think that through. And for me, it was a flat card. No folded. And mine all have a saying on one side, and you flip it over, and I wrote two sentences, three sentences, and I signed it. I have a couple of enclosures I'll put in there. I do put a business card. And depending on how well I know the client, I can add some other things that make sense to me. I've actually been sending prints to clients, which you think, well, who wants a print? And I think, well, when you present as a keynote, nobody's sending you a print of you doing that. That doesn't happen. That's not common. We did an opening for the FC Dallas, the construction company there, and the mayor was presenting. He said a few words. I got some great photos of him, printed them, and sent them. Saw it, and also for the construction, the VP, they were great. And they're emailing me, replying, "Thank you for the note and the photos." One of them said, "I'm going to frame this one." And I thought, that's the differential. How can you make a difference with the client? So you're putting seeds in their mind that this person does a good job and cares about me. And that just takes some effort. So many times people think, the session's done, the project's been approved, I'm done. Right? Step away. Yay. Got my check. And I just think that there's one more step that needs to happen. And for me, it's thank you cards. And it works.

Pat Miller: 26:16

And that's a part of surpassing client expectations. In a family session or a senior session, at the end of the session, you may end up hugging the mom or maybe sending them, you know, a yard sign for their senior or something, that's maybe a little more emotional. But what you're talking about is client expectations. You're still going above and beyond. You're going above and beyond in a way that I'm sure that few people do and they didn't expect. And where you're going with this, I think is really interesting is how do you treat corporate clients differently than personal clients, than B2C kind of clients, that if it's a mom or it's a high school senior or it's a family session, you're outlining some of the ways that people get treated differently yet still appropriately to show them that you're someone that they should know, like, and trust. But you just have to do it in a different way because it's B2B.

Emily McClure: 27:07

Yeah, you've got to pivot. You've got to be willing to take the time. And people think, I don't know what to do. Well, take a second and figure it out. That doesn't mean it's a no. Sort it out in what makes sense. And exceeding expectations looks different for different people, of course, but that for me has been a good fit.

Pat Miller: 27:25

Let's talk about boundaries for a second, with corporate clients. When you take their emails, when you take their texts, working on their timelines, how do you think about boundaries when it comes to corporate clients?

Emily McClure: 27:38

Right. Different personalities are different. I think initially a client that's a first time client, their boundaries are tighter. So I'm not responding to them. If they were to somehow text me late, I'm not responding to them. If they emailed late at night, I'm doing a schedule send for 8 AM; I can reply, but they're not getting it at that time. So the boundaries are pretty tight because I don't want them to be abused and I don't want–like that relationship matters, right? How I handle that communication. However, as a client becomes an established client, like some of my legacy companies. So I had a legacy company email this morning and she's like, "I need a headshot for this person's stat because he's going to the White House. They need it for a press release." I'm like, "Oh, my gosh," like legacy company. And I would have done it for the first time, but I'm sitting down and finding it right then, sending it to her. I'm not asking her, oh, it should be in this or it's in this gallery. She doesn't want the emotion. What does she want? A solution. So I'm sending her the photo she asked for. And guess what else I sent her? Photos of him presenting at the conference, on a panel at a conference. Because I said this collateral might be useful as well. So I sent her what she asked for. A couple of options, actually. And then I sent what she didn't ask for but might be useful for her. Yeah.

Pat Miller: 28:58

And when a client isn't getting the response that they want because you're holding them to boundaries and they start to twitter a little bit, do you just steamroll past it? Like, I'm sorry, new client, you'll get it tomorrow morning or you have to wait till Monday. And because some people might struggle with that, thinking, I've got a new corporate client, I need to make them happy, not hold to my boundaries. Is that just the way it is?

Emily McClure: 29:20

Well, I think boundaries are something that you need, but they won't appreciate at times. And again, it depends on the person. But sometimes, if they're going to push and basically steamroll me, then I'm not the person for you. And my favorite word in corporate work is "unfortunately." Unfortunately, I'm unable to accommodate that request. Unfortunately, that wasn't an option for that evening. Unfortunately. Right? But here's the deal. I don't tell them I'm going on a date with my husband. I have a lunch date with my best friend. I'm going to a matinee. I'm going to go take a long shower. That's not what I'm saying to them. If they say, could we meet tomorrow at noon? Oh, unfortunately, I have a prior engagement. Could such and such work? Offer another option. Right? I'm going to lunch with my friend. I don't say that. Oh, unfortunately, I'm going to lunch with a friend. Could we meet at 3? No, I have an appointment. I have a commitment. They don't need to know what it is. And that's part of that conversation. Like boundaries, you start showing them. If it doesn't work, then offer another solution.

Pat Miller: 30:28

It's so important to hit on that point, though, because if it's just me in a photography studio and I'm servicing a $100 million business with a full-day shoot, that might be the big gig that I have all month. It doesn't matter. If they're $100 million company or $100,000 company, these are my boundaries. And I have a meeting, and you have to wait. Like, if you don't hold your boundaries, there are no boundaries.

Emily McClure: 30:50

They'll run you over in more ways than one. That's what will happen. They'll run you over then, and next, and next. Because they've done that in the past and gotten away with it. That's a habit.

Pat Miller: 31:02

Is that something else that you learned? Did you have to fire some companies that you worked with because they ran you over?

Emily McClure: 31:08

I have, but you have to hold fast. So I had a company probably five years ago, a title company. I did everything in person. I tethered. They approved photos in person, which I do all the time. They actually took 45 minutes between–I think there were three of them there–making decisions, ensuring. And I said a couple of times is this, what you were thinking? Want to make sure we're managing those expectations? Yes, yes, yes, which is good. I was like, great, we're done. Well, a week later, she said she was not happy about A, B, C. She had lots of things she wasn't happy about. And it would have been really easy for me to say, offer a re-shoot. Like right on the bat, like, oh, you're not happy? Let's do a re-shoot. And instead, I went back to my processes. This is what was the deliverables. In person, we reviewed, and they were approved. Very simple. And unfortunately, I'm able to do a re-shoot at no cost, but I'm happy to do it for a reduced rate. Offer solution. Right? But I knew there was a heart issue. And that's the thing about headshots and corporate work and people in general, right? You cannot take the photo they do not allow. So when they say, that's the best headshot I've ever taken or I've ever had. They say that all the time. And I'll say, well, thank you for letting me take it. What I mean is, thank you for your heart letting me see you. It's a huge gift. You could see it in a client when the trust shifts. That mayoral candidate five years ago, he had a long 1-inch hair sticking right out of the middle of his eyebrows. Like, how did your team not see this? Like, how are you now here with me? I carry tweezers. And I said, sir, we've got a situation. He's like, what's up? I'm like, well, you got a hair right here. He said, can you take it off? I was like, absolutely. We did it. Done. And trust. He trusted me. It was great.

Pat Miller: 33:05

Let's go through final thoughts. What haven't we talked about as far as corporate relationships and building our client relationships through good practice and good systems? What haven't we hit on that you'd like to hit on?

Emily McClure: 33:17

Just never underestimate taking care of somebody. It really matters. People think in corporate work. It's not important, and it's absolutely important. People do their jobs. For most, the percentage of their life is spent at their job, with the people that are in the room that you're going to get to see. So take sweet care of them. That is your job. When that person comes to you and you can tell they're nervous because they're shaking or their eye is twitching or they're just looking, they cannot focus, or they're red in the face. Pay attention. That means they're not okay. It's your job to settle them. So the way you do that, you have to be settled yourself. So whatever work you have to do to be ready, and I call it game day ready, then that's on you. Because guess what I don't have anymore. A head coach. I don't have a coaching staff. I've got goosebumps right now. I don't have a strength trainer, an assistant coach, a logistics coordinator. We get a media person. I don't have any of those people. Right? So I am responsible to take care of that, to motivate myself on the days that I don't want to, and have amazing co-workers. People think friendships in the industry don't matter. I absolutely disagree. They see them as a threat. I disagree. Most of my legacy company clients have come from other photographers. That's wild. Because they see me as an expert. Right? I've done something right.

Pat Miller: 34:57

Look at me. I must have done something right. Thank you for the referral.

Emily McClure: 35:01

Yes. And then I send them a gift, like say thank you. That's corporate now. So if you refer a company to another company, they're sending you a gift. It's very common. Right? And I do that, too. So the event organizer of the conference I just worked, who's been working her tail off, they're often like a little unappreciated. I'm sending her a gift the next week at her office in New York, Atlanta, Salt Lake, wherever it is. Takes a little work. Totally worth it.

Pat Miller: 35:32

It's been a great discussion about how to put some emotion and the know, like, and trust factor into the relationships even in the corporate setting. You definitely made some people some money today, and I appreciate your time. Emily McClure, thank you for coming on the show. I appreciate it.

Emily McClure: 35:46

Thank you, Pat. Have a good day.

Pat Miller: 35:48

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of The Professional Photographer Podcast. Loved that conversation with Emily. Hopefully, you did, too. Hopefully, you've also liked and subscribed and left a comment. Now you notice I said that in past tense because of course you have already liked and subscribed and commented, right? Wink. You've done it. It is really important. That way, you'll find us every time we release an episode, and your comments help us know what's working and what's not. So take a minute and do that. We really appreciate it. The other thing is, if you're not yet a member of Professional Photographers of America, you are missing the boat. PPA offers incredible resources like equipment insurance, top-notch education, and a supportive community of photographers ready to help you succeed. It's the perfect place for photographers who are serious about growing their business in a sustainable and profitable way. At PPA, you belong here. Discover more about membership at ppa.com. That's PPA.com. I'm Pat Miller, founder of the Small Business Owners Community and the publisher of the Small Business Summary newsletter. We'd love to have you check that out. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you right here next time. Take care.